Austrian Legends. Folk Tales and Oral Traditions. A Glimpse Into The Past.

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Silvanus777

Silvanus777

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#21
@Paracelsus : So sad what has been done to the American natives, and natives everwhere...

Paulides' research is a captivating topic. I have watched many hours of his various interviews. Regarding Sasquatch, I bet many of you are already aware with the European counterpart that seemed to have been around in the "middle ages":

Wilder Mann 1.jpg Wilder Mann 3.jpg Wilder Mann 5.jpg Wilder Mann 4.png Wilder Mann 2.jpg
(As you can see, the "Wild Man" was significant enough to have become a popular motif in heraldry as well!

Here it was called "Wilder Mann", so simply "wild man" as you can guess. The females were called, among other names, "Wilde Weiber" or "Waldweiber" - wild or wood-women. Most descriptions of those are pretty much identical with the sasquatch, the males being commonly described as wild, savage, oafish and dangerous beasts, whereas the females more soft-natured and often quite friendly to humans. Helpful and knowledgeable in the arts of herbal medicine etc. which they generously shared with humans. In the local folk tale book from 1932 I took most of the info in the OP from, there are lots and lots of anecdotes about these hairy forest humanoids (as well as of small humanoids of the forest/wilderness) that do not sounds so much removed into the distant past of the "middle ages" really.

@nothingnew

Bear in mind, I have nothing against the Swiss people. Do you guys recognize this?

Boy oh boy. Look what I just recently bought on a flea market:

Commemorative Coin Schützenfest St. Gallen 1874 small.jpg


A commemorative coin from Switzerland issued for the 1874 "Eidgenössisches Schützenfest" in St. Gallen (it's a falsification, yet an accurate reproduction of the real thing). Some patriotic celebration I would guess.

These guys are hiding "THEIR" gang-signs everywhere. Even in the backwoods parts of my backwoods Austrian hillbilly town, next to a tractor road in the woods where only some hikers and the farmer owning the land ever sees it, somebody put a small stone monument with guess what carved into it!? Yes, a fasces (Need to get you a photo of it haha). Follow the fasces to get to where the real PTB is at, or so it seems. Once you know what your're looking at and for ("eyes to see" so to say) it honestly gets a bit frightening to see this symbol literally everywhere where it shouldn't be if we were to accept what we all learnt at school... :p

...

Oh and here's the episode from the Austrian mystery TV show with the Untersberg stuff (That should be the one I meant):


WARNING: As you can see already see on the cover image, they really caught the funniest of birds for this series, so expect some genuinely crazy looking/sounding/acting people. Those are the ones that make good television, the sane variant hangs out here! ;-)
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If you want some insight, look into Sean Hross. Here are his yt channels:
chatzefratz
giureh
Central Intelligence Agency


If you can stand the prominent swearing and some occasionally very shaky handheld camera footage, you are in for a treat I guarantee. A good start would be Die Pharaonen Show/The Pharaohs Show, both in German and English. There are some videos in French as well there, if that rocks your boat.
Ah yes, I have recently come across this stuff and been watching a bit on and off. Definitely goes to show we people here seem to be caught (?) in the same informational/algorithmic youtube "bubble" for a good part, hahaha! :unsure:
 
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nothingnew

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#22
Just a couple minutes in, at 4:40 on this Austrian mystery tv show there is something in his collection that caught my eye right away. I've seen that golden figure of Osiris somewhere, well:




Could this be the same statue? I doubt there are many people with golden Osiris figurines in their living room.
 

Ice Nine

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#23
Alright, glad I inspired a healthy discussion with my write-up!

@whitewave - Regarding the Untersberg:

The Untersberg in the province of Salzburg is about two hours to the south-west by car from me. Never been there (adverse circumstances have rendered me rather immobile the last 10 years :() but it is of old the nexus of much of legendary, mythical and spooky going ons in Austria in general. Much spookiness is said to have occured there since basically forever, and the most popular folk tale motif connected to the Untersberg is the "Untersberg-Manndl" = Untersberg tiny men. They're these typical dwarf or gnome characters that are said to mine and amass heaps of gold, silver and gems in the deeps of the mountain, living unseen to the human eye in underground caverns, which they exit and enter through concealed, secret doors in rockfaces, also possessing the power of making themselves invisible - usually by the use of "Tarnkappen", that is litereally "stealth caps"

Keeping that in mind, the modern legends of the Nazis, as @whitewave alluded to, having had an underground tunnel system / secret base deep inside the Untersberg, becomes quite interesting if you bear the dwarf tunnels of olden legend in mind! Man I wished I could show you some really cheesy TV documentary from one of our cheesy Austrian TV channels where they follow nutcases around who are into mysteries n'shite: Still it has a lot of fascinating info about mysterious places in Austria, including the Untersberg. Besides the time portal or time phenomena rumors going around even among English speakers on the web, there are actually people who are looking for the Nazis in the Untersberg today, as some believe they are still there... One guy in the TV show claimed he knew someone who even met one of them when exploring caverns in the Untersberg, and reported he or they (some Nazis) were stuck in time there... Haha, that is all really wild and I'm wary of taking anything at face value, especially when shown on cheesy Austrian TV. Would love to show you the documentary. It's even on youtube, but in German alas...

Among many more legends and rumors surrounding the Untersberg, there is also this notion that Charlemagne, of all ficitional characters, is sleeping within the mountain and waiting for his soon return. You know, to be "The once and future king of the Germans" I guess. To me, clearly, just a romantic adaptation of Arthurian material. There is a whole short story around this which is populary retold in many modern Austrian folk tale books, but I really think it is rather worthless and is based on some utterly fictional, romantic short story written not too long ago. I haven't been able to trace that story to it's roots as of yet. Just had to mention "Charlemagne" sleeping in the Untersberg. Come on, why not Aragarn!? :ROFLMAO:

@Onijunbei Yes, that is kinda what I was alluding to when I wrote in the OP

Your silly thoughts regarding dwarfs and giants mirror my silly thoughts, LOL. Somebody has to have been considerably larger in former times, or someone considerably smaller than today's average height in humans. Who were the dwarfs and who the giants I cannot really tell from the available material... However I have been seriously entertaining the thought that massive eu-/dysgenics programs could have been used some time prior to the photographic era to accomplish uniformity among human body types. Just thoughts, but basically a combination of genociding any and all misfits (taller, smaller, different types of humans) and mixing up the rest good, so you have the "average" human as the new norm in the end! What do you guys think bout that line of thought? As far as explaining all the old stories of giants and dwarfs/gnomes and their absence today?

@Ice Nine

Yeah, the dragons... Don't get me started. I didn't mention it cause it seems almost unexcitingly ordinary - the dragon stories. They are all over the place in Austria as well, obviously. The classical dragonslayer motif adapted to the world of the old Austrian peasantry, but more organic sounding reports too, which also make me quite a firm believer in the existence of large reptiles aka dragons in a past and lost age of humanity.

And the Wild Hunt: At this point, I have come to reject the notion of "extraterrestrials" completely. Now "extradimensionals" is a whole nother story! ;) And those would be great candidates for explaining at least part of the Wild Hunt phenomenon, as well as the plethora of other miscellaneous devil, demon and ghost haunting stories going around not only in Austria. The prize question for me here is always why we don't witness these things on such a mass scale today anymore? And I mean the Austrian treasury of folk tales and sayings is chock full of these "supernatural" (?) encounters, which used to scare people out of their minds!

Sil's crazy out of-the-box thought: What if these "extradimensionals"/"demons" don't need to come after us out in the real world (like in a dark forest in a full moon night) anymore, but now we all have portals to their realm right in our own houses, in the form of TVs, scrying mirriors AKA smartphones, etc., by which we humans can be manipulated in more subtle ways...

That's it guys - Roll the X-Files theme!! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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OH YES ABSOLUTELY we need a book!:D
But published as a collab, published under some bombastic pseudonym, just like the Renaissance guys did, so no single on of us can take the credit for all of it, IMHO! I would volunteer to do the German version, as I have experience with book writing haha. But let's hold our horses and take our time with that I would say, unless the end of the world is really coming in 2012. What...? Oh. It's almost 2019 already. What happened!? :ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO:
So much going on here, my mind is reeling and I just keep nodding my head as I read.


Sil's crazy out of-the-box thought: What if these "extradimensionals"/"demons" don't need to come after us out in the real world (like in a dark forest in a full moon night) anymore, but now we all have portals to their realm right in our own houses, in the form of TVs, scrying mirriors AKA smartphones, etc., by which we humans can be manipulated in more subtle ways..."

We have let too much of this stuff control our lives, it's just like some people are having their identities sucked right out of thiem into a virtual world. They are so concentrated on their virtual lives and letting devices control their every move and thought. Mindless zombies of a sort. I could feel myself being sucked in a decade ago, and put the brakes on, I do next to nothing on the 'net anymore and have a clam shell phone, that I just use for phone calls. And we don't need Alexa or anything else running our lives.

And the Wild Hunt: At this point, I have come to reject the notion of "extraterrestrials" completely. Now "extradimensionals" is a whole nother story! ;) And those would be great candidates for explaining at least part of the Wild Hunt phenomenon, as well as the plethora of other miscellaneous devil, demon and ghost haunting stories going around not only in Austria. The prize question for me here is always why we don't witness these things on such a mass scale today anymore? And I mean the Austrian treasury of folk tales and sayings is chock full of these "supernatural" (?) encounters, which used to scare people out of their minds! "
You are most likely right about extra dimensionals as opposed to extraterrestrial. I used to be a huge Ancient Alien supporter, but over the years
I've come to doubt the majority of their theories, and they have really gone off the rails anyway. But the TV show, much like the cheesey documentaries you mention, they at least take us to interesting ruins and places. Now I just laugh at their crazy explanations,

@Paracelsus oh yes David Paulides, something is really going on, and it just gets swept under the rug. I spend a lot of time in National Parks, and it gives me the heebie jeebies, I never go out hiking alone EVER, and while out walking/hiking with anybody, I never get out of sight of anybody I'm with. There are far too many instances of people being there one minute and then just being gone the next and no trace is ever found of them. Or maybe in the case of a toddler, he is found a few ridges away, with no shoes on and his feet completely pristine.
 

ShemTov

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#24
"EUROPE'S EARLY HISTORY SUPPRESSED
European civilization — and its history — is as old as Egypt's. But it has been suppressed. Not since the close of the seventeenth century has it been allowed to be taught publicly.
It did not happen in a day. It took centuries of calculated plotting and ridicule to wipe from the pages of history the record of early Europe. Historians and theologians have conspired together to label Europe's early history as "myth."
Their motive is plain. If theologians and historians had allowed the early history of Europe to be taught in schools and universities, they would have had to admit the authenticity and the authority of the Bible. THAT they did not want to do.
Had they not expunged the early events of Europe every one today would be reading of the journeys of Noah, Shem, Heber, Asshur and many other Biblical heroes into Europe. Children would be reading in schools today of the early settlement of Assyrians and Chaldeans in Western Europe. They would know where the "Ten Lost Tribes" of the House of Israel migrated.
All this has been purposely hidden. But it has not all been lost. Scattered through the writings of scholars of the fifteenth, sixteenth and seventeenth centuries are fragmentary records which unveil what really happened in Europe. In museums and libraries, in state archives are still to be found documents of hoary antiquity corroborating the Biblical record.
This chapter contains the account of one of those documents. It is a history of the Danubian Valley — the area of Austria, Hungary, Bohemia, Bavaria and neighboring regions. The document is the "Oesterreichische Chronik" — the Austrian Chronicle. It has never before been rendered into modern English. A number of copies of the Chronicle are scattered throughout Europe. The last entry in the Chronicle is of the year 1404.

ABRAHAM IN THE AUSTRIAN CHRONICLE
The Austrian Chronicle begins its consecutive history with a man of princely birth — none other than the patriarch Abraham! But what has Abraham to do with the history of the Danubian Valley in Europe? Very much.
The most ancient Greek name for the Danube River was the River Noe. Noe is the Greek form of the Hebrew Noah.
Noah was the patriarch of the whole human family following the flood. His patriarchal authority passed on to Shem, who superseded his older brother Japheth. In each succeeding generation the hereditary right of the firstborn was passed on from father to son. Terah was eighth in descent from Shem (Genesis 11:10-26), and the heir to Noah and Shem. Terah had, according to the Biblical record, three sons. The oldest, Haran, was born when Terah was 70 years old (Gen. 11:26). He died before his father Terah did (Gen 11:28). "And Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees." Why Haran died young will be made plain shortly from the Austrian Chronicle. "
source
or
here

neat.
 
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Silvanus777

Silvanus777

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#25
"EUROPE'S EARLY HISTORY SUPPRESSED
European civilization — and its history — is as old as Egypt's. But it has been suppressed. Not since the close of the seventeenth century has it been allowed to be taught publicly.
It did not happen in a day. It took centuries of calculated plotting and ridicule to wipe from the pages of history the record of early Europe. Historians and theologians have conspired together to label Europe's early history as "myth."
Their motive is plain. If theologians and historians had allowed the early history of Europe to be taught in schools and universities, they would have had to admit the authenticity and the authority of the Bible. THAT they did not want to do.
Had they not expunged the early events of Europe every one today would be reading of the journeys of Noah, Shem, Heber, Asshur and many other Biblical heroes into Europe. Children would be reading in schools today of the early settlement of Assyrians and Chaldeans in Western Europe. They would know where the "Ten Lost Tribes" of the House of Israel migrated.
All this has been purposely hidden. But it has not all been lost. Scattered through the writings of scholars of the fifteenth, sixteenth and seventeenth centuries are fragmentary records which unveil what really happened in Europe. In museums and libraries, in state archives are still to be found documents of hoary antiquity corroborating the Biblical record.
This chapter contains the account of one of those documents. It is a history of the Danubian Valley — the area of Austria, Hungary, Bohemia, Bavaria and neighboring regions. The document is the "Oesterreichische Chronik" — the Austrian Chronicle. It has never before been rendered into modern English. A number of copies of the Chronicle are scattered throughout Europe. The last entry in the Chronicle is of the year 1404.

ABRAHAM IN THE AUSTRIAN CHRONICLE
The Austrian Chronicle begins its consecutive history with a man of princely birth — none other than the patriarch Abraham! But what has Abraham to do with the history of the Danubian Valley in Europe? Very much.
The most ancient Greek name for the Danube River was the River Noe. Noe is the Greek form of the Hebrew Noah.
Noah was the patriarch of the whole human family following the flood. His patriarchal authority passed on to Shem, who superseded his older brother Japheth. In each succeeding generation the hereditary right of the firstborn was passed on from father to son. Terah was eighth in descent from Shem (Genesis 11:10-26), and the heir to Noah and Shem. Terah had, according to the Biblical record, three sons. The oldest, Haran, was born when Terah was 70 years old (Gen. 11:26). He died before his father Terah did (Gen 11:28). "And Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees." Why Haran died young will be made plain shortly from the Austrian Chronicle. "
source
or
here

neat.
Fascinating. And what amazing synchronizity: I just yesterday had read an article on "Social Paradoxes of Jewry" over at revisedhistory.org where it states:
"The legend reports that in pagan times, Judaic princes also ruled the Austrian provinces. An Austrian chronicle, compiled by a Viennese chronicler in the years of the reign of Albert III (1350-1395), contains a list of fewer than twenty-two such Jewish rulers who passed on the government to their own sons.
In this list are not only their names, but also both the years of reign and the place of their burial: "Sennan, ruled 45 years, buried at the Stubentor, in Vienna; Zippan, ruled 43 years, buried in Tulln." . . . The legend is repeated, with some variations, in the Latin chronicles of Austria by Henricus Gundelfingus of 1474 and in a number of other chronicles." - Source
Might that be the very same "Austrian Chronicle" that you posted about @ShemTov? Anyways thank you very much for the valuable information. (y)
Now I'll have to get a copy of this ominous "Austrian Chronicle", at least in digital form! ;)
 

ShemTov

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#26
i think the middle danube basin is a place very purposefully neglected for thousands of years because it holds all the answers to all our mysteries. even things like the stonehenge landscape are nothing more than copies of the original paradise landscape of myth in the middle danube. scientifically you have to note the magic loess soils, ample water, warm soils and long growing season [much longer than the middle east] of what really is a paradise when compared to almost everywhere else.
 

ripvanwillie

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#27
@Silvanus777,
I know this is off topic, but one of my inventor heroes hails from your neck of the woods, Viktor Schauberger. If you ever get the chance, go check out the PKS in Bad Ischl.
Home | PKS

Schauberger even gives his theory on the phenomenon of the Niebelungen and sono-luminescence. Fairy tale tangential.


I'm still making my way through this book:
The Divining Hand : The 500-Year-Old Mystery of DowsingDowsing
The Divining Hand: The 500 Year-old Mystery of Dowsing by Christopher Bird

If there was ever a more supressed and ridiculed technology than dowsing, I don't know what it would be. Towns that lose their drinking water supply quietly bring in dowsers, pay them, and then hush up. In your case they probably just attributed your hit to luck or statistical probability.

It's all just fairy tales, right?
Not in my experience. I know this is just anecdotal, but it confirms what you are saying. I once owned a ranch in central California (USA) which had a rapidly decreasing water table due to too many vineyards in the area. My neighbor Larry, who was a black man with African heritage, was also a dowser. He had dowsed and found the location for the water well on his property. He told me it was a psychic skill passed down in his family that apparently skipped a generation. He said they used 2 year old limbs from a willow because they have a natural affinity to water. You need young branches, as they have a higher water content within. Old or dead sticks won't work. He showed me how to do it and we dowsed many acres of my ranch looking for a water source. I didn't find anything nor could I get the sticks to do anything at all. I clearly didn't possess any dowsing skills. But it was a fun day walking the land learning about something I had no knowledge of.
In all honesty, I didn't believe his story, I was just enjoying some time with a neighbor I really liked. But when I called the well drilling company in the area, the owner told me the cost and time involved in finding water and it is a process than can take time and a lot of money. At the time $35,000- 45,000 US dollars per experimental hole, and there is no guarantee he'll find water. The overall cost per hole was dependent on the rock he has to drill through, and how deep he had to go. He then told me I could cut the costs dramatically and find new water sources much faster if I hire a dowser! He gave me examples of neighbors experiences in finding water sources, and it sounded a bit too good to be true. He had names of several dowsers in the area that would do the work for a reasonable fee.
When I gave him the address of my ranch, he was already aware of the property and said it has been doused before. He told me there were a few locations that he knew of where he could find water, and one of them was pretty much where my friend Larry had doused and said that water is down there. The driller told me he didn't understand how dowsing worked, and because it was not scientifically acceptable, he only told advised his clients by word of mouth that it may work, but offered no guarantees. There was no mention of dowsing anywhere in his company literature. He said it made his job a lot less frustrating and more affordable to his clients. He explained there are areas in the underlying stone where water wants to percolate up and the dowsers seem to know how to locate them better than using actual water table charts. This brought me back to stuff I read about Viktor Schauberger and his theories of how salmon shoot their way up waterfalls.
In the end, I never had the well dug. Just too expensive, and I ended up selling the ranch. But I have been intrigued by dousing ever since. I mean, if the experts who dig wells rely on dousers, then I'd say that's proof there is some efficacy to the process. And of course, science says it's a bunch of hooey, just folklore. All the more reason to suspect something important hidden from us.
 

ISeenItFirst

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#28
Not in my experience. I know this is just anecdotal, but it confirms what you are saying. I once owned a ranch in central California (USA) which had a rapidly decreasing water table due to too many vineyards in the area. My neighbor Larry, who was a black man with African heritage, was also a dowser. He had dowsed and found the location for the water well on his property. He told me it was a psychic skill passed down in his family that apparently skipped a generation. He said they used 2 year old limbs from a willow because they have a natural affinity to water. You need young branches, as they have a higher water content within. Old or dead sticks won't work. He showed me how to do it and we dowsed many acres of my ranch looking for a water source. I didn't find anything nor could I get the sticks to do anything at all. I clearly didn't possess any dowsing skills. But it was a fun day walking the land learning about something I had no knowledge of.
In all honesty, I didn't believe his story, I was just enjoying some time with a neighbor I really liked. But when I called the well drilling company in the area, the owner told me the cost and time involved in finding water and it is a process than can take time and a lot of money. At the time $35,000- 45,000 US dollars per experimental hole, and there is no guarantee he'll find water. The overall cost per hole was dependent on the rock he has to drill through, and how deep he had to go. He then told me I could cut the costs dramatically and find new water sources much faster if I hire a dowser! He gave me examples of neighbors experiences in finding water sources, and it sounded a bit too good to be true. He had names of several dowsers in the area that would do the work for a reasonable fee.
When I gave him the address of my ranch, he was already aware of the property and said it has been doused before. He told me there were a few locations that he knew of where he could find water, and one of them was pretty much where my friend Larry had doused and said that water is down there. The driller told me he didn't understand how dowsing worked, and because it was not scientifically acceptable, he only told advised his clients by word of mouth that it may work, but offered no guarantees. There was no mention of dowsing anywhere in his company literature. He said it made his job a lot less frustrating and more affordable to his clients. He explained there are areas in the underlying stone where water wants to percolate up and the dowsers seem to know how to locate them better than using actual water table charts. This brought me back to stuff I read about Viktor Schauberger and his theories of how salmon shoot their way up waterfalls.
In the end, I never had the well dug. Just too expensive, and I ended up selling the ranch. But I have been intrigued by dousing ever since. I mean, if the experts who dig wells rely on dousers, then I'd say that's proof there is some efficacy to the process. And of course, science says it's a bunch of hooey, just folklore. All the more reason to suspect something important hidden from us.
I've seen it used by public utilities on the street to find a water main. Their radar just wasn't getting it done.

Someone did a survey of public water utilities in the UK and found about half used them iirc. No one claims to know why or how, but it seems those that do swear by it, and those that don't call it bunk.
 
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asatiger1966

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#29
@Paracelsus kudos for mentioning Die Nibelungen, an epic tale of a lost/forgotten time, well except we have that epic saga. I actually think there could have been dragons in one of the many cycles on Earth. Something keeps happening were we forget everything. I think we have more going on than just time issues and cover-ups.

And about the wild hunt, this part got to me. I can't help myself, it sounds like alien abductions. Some sort of abduction, doesn't have to be Aliens per say, they could be terrestrial.
  • The wild hunt abducts people and certain animals. They have to fly along through the air amongst the wild company, and return the next morning under amnesia, disoriented, scratched, bruised and battered. Sometimes the people or animals are found dead at very distant locations, or not at all.
OMG, just last night I said the same thing, we were watching The Hobbit Battle of the Five Armies, for the umpteethn time. And I said the same thing, it was like an epiphany, I said, we were the Dwarfs! it just all made sense. Big structures, big doorways for the normal/giant people.
Ice Nine
maman , I am laughing my backside off, not at you but the "madness" that is national security. My military experiences left me and others with an open mind that could drive you nuts if dwelt upon. I have often alluded to the reality of other dimensions or other realms. My group knows that the Dragons are real and have , for whatever reason, removed themselves to another realm.

Dragons lived on this planet and still reside in a few isolated climates. The Fiery Flying Serpent | Genesis Park
One huge problem with encountering these creatures would be location. They over millennium coexisted with other life forms, fairies, dwarfs, unicorns, really too many to category. The dragons did not always have a poor relationship with humans per-say. in the beginning they both worked together to maintain harmony with the the environment.. The Mont yard mountain of Indochina could recall a time when the yellow dragon would come when called to their villages to heal a child stricken with an unknown illness. An yes the tribesmen came to worship the Yellow dragon as a god, along with a few other creatures. The humans, being lower lifeforms were afraid of any creature that was more intelligent, scary looking and hard to communicate with.

The primitive leadership of the humans were afraid that the other creatures would be taken as Gods partly because of their special abilities that humans though only gods could perform. So we had the manufacturing of human gods with special powers to compete with the real elemental powers of the earth bound creatures. at least in writing and the stories told by their leaders.

As the human populations grew and moved to towns, again removing themselves further away from the elemental experiences of the rural areas. They became more fearful of others. And easier prey for priest that needed power, control and their money.

Wars eventually came with increasing numbers of humans. The many creatures felt no desire to grow their numbers, for expansion and control were foreign to elemental creatures. Eventually the humans chose to fight the Dwarfs of the mountains driving them totally underground. This was a thousands of years undertaking. The other creatures were to make adjustments in the way their relationships with the humans were conducted. limited trade with the humans worked up into the early 18th century, at that time the creatures that had survived the many wars withdrew into themselves

Me and my men have seen many of the creatures you might call as fairy tales. The main difference between us and you is a mater of location. We lived in their homes with them and most people live in human houses. , most read distorted accounts of someone that had a brother who lived in a hotel on an island where creatures lived. but he knew a man.

Some of the more human of the elemental became very secretive and hid their presence among humans. Think of The U.S. invading and displacing the western peoples by the million. After which there was a major change in our history. Each creature would resist differently to being pushed by humans, a lower lifeforms, from their land of millions of years.

They could hide in plain sight, go to another planet, open a portal and go to a compatible dimension waiting on the humans to destroy themselves, then return to heal the planet. My experience says they did it all.

We went looking for survivors in the mountains around Dak To, attached a map of area, the dark red area is where we met the birds. and fell into a NVA unit about 3,000 in number, our causalities were heavy.. When returning to the mountain after food,ammo,medical ,reinforcements. 40 troopers got off the Chinook chopper, 15 died in the next three days, the survivors were all hit once, maybe as much as three times.we were back in the crap as a blocking force. Then we walked into a dimensional bubble, the Montagnard , picture attached, scouts fell to the ground praying to their bird Gods. We could see 5-7 depending on whom you asked.

I attached a picture of a close resemblance to what we saw, without the crazy man on top LOL.
Three years later we were in Thailand, near the center of the country. During that search we encountered a small dragon , again on a mountaintop during a heavy rain. he knocked out all of our electronics. He did not discover us and juust the event , moving along. Similar picture attached.

I make an effort to give as much business to the Vietnamese people living here as possible. There is one barber shop I frequent. The older lady that runs the shop and I were on casual speaking terms. If you think you have questions about some of the events in my life, I have a few myself. Using the old "I have a friend" and he told me about some birds that the hill people worship, and that he relayed to me that his squad had seen them on a mountain near Dak To.
She stopped cutting my hair and stared at me for a while then said, tell your friend that he was very lucky with the birds, but if he had seen the golden dragon he would have died.

txu-oclc-1092889-78336-8-70.jpg
Vimanas, ancient flying machines in Vedic literature.JPG Montagnards_in_field.png yellow dragon.jpg
 

Ice Nine

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#30
@asatiger1966 I always enjoy your "spilling the beans" posts. My father, who died in 1971, fought overseas in WWII as did almost all of my uncles, anyway, Dad always used to say we know nothing about the "real world" especially outside of the USA. Unfortunately I never got to pursue that line of thought with him in later life.
For some reason we are treated as naive children who need to be sheltered from reality.
 

welkyn

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#31
Great thread Silvanus. Thought I'd add a few things about your Venetian Dwarves!

In Britain, we have these very, very old legends of small, dark men who work in the mountains; they mine precious stones and metals, and trade with local populations. Their holds are carved into the mountains, and are filled with intricate (and very tiny) passageways that no regular size human can navigate - maybe a young child, at a push, but I'm talking 3-4 years (not someone you want working in a mine...).

These people are said to be much older here than we are, though we can't say for sure (a lot of this is set in "great antiquity" - however far back that is). The curious thing is that they are variously called "Vens", "Wens" (with the soft "u" of English W), or later, "Pens" or "Pents".

So nowadays we have places like the "Pennines" in England and the "Pentlands" in Scotland, which were where these people lived. When Danish people started coming here (Angles, Jutes, Scyldings etc.), they mispronounced "Pent" as "Pecht", and their legends got mixed up with the "Picts" of Latin sources, who may or may not have been the related people. There are Pents/Pechts referenced as living in Orkney as well - again, in tiny houses that no normal size human could fit in.

Also associated with these people are a group in northern Ireland/western Scotland (the Isles) known as the "Danes" or "Old Danes". They're not the Danes of Denmark - they are, again, a short, dark, hairy people, who live in the mounds, in old barrows, or in mountains, who hoard precious goods, and are excellent stoneworkers/masons. The mounds and megaliths of Ireland are attributed to them, which leads people to associate them with the "Tuatha De Danann" and "Daoine Sidhe" of mythological fame.

Then we get one other group in Ireland, which are called the Feni or Fenians, who may be tangentially related to all this - I'll get into how in a bit.

Basically in some of the research I've done, we've come to the conclusion that, at some point, there was a migration into Britain and Ireland from the south-west, which brought what we've been calling "Phoenicians" (though they may indeed be "Venetians", at this rate, albeit back-dated to BC) - hence "Feni", "Veni", "Weni", "Peni" etc. There are cultural and genetic changes associated with this migration, which can be traced from the Mediterranean up the Atlantic coast to Cornwall, Wales and Ireland, and from central Europe (Austria - Hallstatt) up into southern England. The associations with precious metals, "magical" technologies, and foreignness (sometimes these people were called "Wealh" - Welsh!), leads me to believe that we're looking at the same people here as you have in your folklore. There are also stories of disappearances, invisibility powers, mysterious goings on in general - the same schtick!

Edit: I remember one other interesting facet of this conundrum: the Tinkers. The Tinkers were - as the name suggests - renowned Tinsmiths, who would often travel, or stay in small, ethnically homogenous communities. They would trade their skill with metalworking for food, money, whatever people could spare, going from home to home, often in Scotland. Eventually, they were persecuted by the Church, then the Government; many were likely massacred during the Highland Clearances, and nowadays, very few people know anything at all about them. We have a couple of photographs depicting Travellers who might be Tinkers, but it's difficult to say (they have dark features, dark hair, "Mediterranean" look to a degree - a bit like Bebers). One of the interesting things about them is that they're supposedly linked to Jewish custom... I can't remember exactly how, but there's a big thing even today in some communities in the Scottish lowlands about not eating pork. I wonder if there's a "Phoenician/Venetian" link there as well.


That's about all I have for now on that front. A quick one on the Wild Hunt: we also have the Wild Hunt in England and Scotland (shared Germanic culture), but there's a similar thing that's recorded in some Irish, Welsh and Scottish Gaelic sources. Basically, it would happen on occasion that people walking out and about, especially going by old routes in the wilder parts, would be come upon by "fairies", that would pick them up and carry them off a way - they might be found later that day, or later that week, somewhere a mile or more off from where they started. They'd always be found confused, disoriented, amnesiac, with cuts, bruises, welts and all sorts of light damage to them. They'd never know what happened or how they'd got to where they were.

This is recorded quite a lot in various parts of western Scotland, where the Wild Hunt idea was less well known... Elsewhere in England it's down just as in Austria - the Wild Hunt, taking people up into the ghoulish host to deposit them somewhere else (if they don't get killed in the process). One of the main differences is that I don't think anybody's recorded as having been killed by the "fairies". Also, there are no reports of what they look like - one report I read said that a local soothsayer/magic-man got picked up, some time in the 18th century, and he was known to have the "second sight", and was telling his friend what the fairies looked like as they came down upon him, but he couldn't remember the episode at all after he was found wandering the wilderness a few days later - again, scratched and bruised, very disoriented. His friend hadn't been able to see anything but the magic-man getting whisked up into the sky and carried a long distance.

Interesting how this stuff is so common across Europe... I think every culture here has similar stories, of little dark men mining things out of the mountains, of lights and strange sounds sweeping men off their feet, of dragons and deluges, swamps that swallow churches and all sorts of general oddity. It stands in favour of these accounts that they're produced independently by different cultures, by people who would have had no way of contacting each other in general - the peasantry weren't known to be particularly well-traveled, nor particularly well-versed in foreign tongues. And I'm sure you've found the same, that even when they were beginning to be recorded in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries (or whenever it was), nobody believed these stories but the people who'd seen them first hand. Very strange stuff.
 
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asatiger1966

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#32
Ice Nine
maman , I am laughing my backside off, not at you but the "madness" that is national security. My military experiences left me and others with an open mind that could drive you nuts if dwelt upon. I have often alluded to the reality of other dimensions or other realms. My group knows that the Dragons are real and have , for whatever reason, removed themselves to another realm.

Dragons lived on this planet and still reside in a few isolated climates. The Fiery Flying Serpent | Genesis Park
One huge problem with encountering these creatures would be location. They over millennium coexisted with other life forms, fairies, dwarfs, unicorns, really too many to category. The dragons did not always have a poor relationship with humans per-say. in the beginning they both worked together to maintain harmony with the the environment.. The Mont yard mountain of Indochina could recall a time when the yellow dragon would come when called to their villages to heal a child stricken with an unknown illness. An yes the tribesmen came to worship the Yellow dragon as a god, along with a few other creatures. The humans, being lower lifeforms were afraid of any creature that was more intelligent, scary looking and hard to communicate with.

The primitive leadership of the humans were afraid that the other creatures would be taken as Gods partly because of their special abilities that humans though only gods could perform. So we had the manufacturing of human gods with special powers to compete with the real elemental powers of the earth bound creatures. at least in writing and the stories told by their leaders.

As the human populations grew and moved to towns, again removing themselves further away from the elemental experiences of the rural areas. They became more fearful of others. And easier prey for priest that needed power, control and their money.

Wars eventually came with increasing numbers of humans. The many creatures felt no desire to grow their numbers, for expansion and control were foreign to elemental creatures. Eventually the humans chose to fight the Dwarfs of the mountains driving them totally underground. This was a thousands of years undertaking. The other creatures were to make adjustments in the way their relationships with the humans were conducted. limited trade with the humans worked up into the early 18th century, at that time the creatures that had survived the many wars withdrew into themselves

Me and my men have seen many of the creatures you might call as fairy tales. The main difference between us and you is a mater of location. We lived in their homes with them and most people live in human houses. , most read distorted accounts of someone that had a brother who lived in a hotel on an island where creatures lived. but he knew a man.

Some of the more human of the elemental became very secretive and hid their presence among humans. Think of The U.S. invading and displacing the western peoples by the million. After which there was a major change in our history. Each creature would resist differently to being pushed by humans, a lower lifeforms, from their land of millions of years.

They could hide in plain sight, go to another planet, open a portal and go to a compatible dimension waiting on the humans to destroy themselves, then return to heal the planet. My experience says they did it all.

We went looking for survivors in the mountains around Dak To, attached a map of area, the dark red area is where we met the birds. and fell into a NVA unit about 3,000 in number, our causalities were heavy.. When returning to the mountain after food,ammo,medical ,reinforcements. 40 troopers got off the Chinook chopper, 15 died in the next three days, the survivors were all hit once, maybe as much as three times.we were back in the crap as a blocking force. Then we walked into a dimensional bubble, the Montagnard , picture attached, scouts fell to the ground praying to their bird Gods. We could see 5-7 depending on whom you asked.

I attached a picture of a close resemblance to what we saw, without the crazy man on top LOL.
Three years later we were in Thailand, near the center of the country. During that search we encountered a small dragon , again on a mountaintop during a heavy rain. he knocked out all of our electronics. He did not discover us and juust the event , moving along. Similar picture attached.

I make an effort to give as much business to the Vietnamese people living here as possible. There is one barber shop I frequent. The older lady that runs the shop and I were on casual speaking terms. If you think you have questions about some of the events in my life, I have a few myself. Using the old "I have a friend" and he told me about some birds that the hill people worship, and that he relayed to me that his squad had seen them on a mountain near Dak To.
She stopped cutting my hair and stared at me for a while then said, tell your friend that he was very lucky with the birds, but if he had seen the golden dragon he would have died.

Update: The map below showing that our areas of combat coincided with most of our search area. We fought and searched heavily in and around Komtum and Dak To. The map shows areas of activity of what the Vietnamese people called Nguoi Rung - "Forest People". Americans call it Bigfoot.

According to an ancient origin myth, the Vietnamese people are descended from a dragon and a fairy. The Montagnard tribesmen made up part of our scouts because the jungle talked to them.

Dragon Mountain, The name Ham Rong or the Dragon comes from the fact that the center of the mountain range is a rock formation that resembles a dragon head. The Vietnamese people believe the legends and the myths that they are the descendants from the dragon and supernatural. my emphasis only, I think they use the word supernatural to mean , something they can not understand.

Once you have an encounter out there, somehow your maginet field mixes " Naval Intelligent" and they can locate you. Like a good coon dog they can sense you a long way off, also informing them your friendly.
 

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