Did Cherokee Indians Build the Greco-Roman Architecture in the U.S.?

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From Norumbega: Washington Monument and the Roman Empire from KD's post: Reddit discussion on r/CulturalLayer sub, courtesy of @Apollyon in this Part II thread here.
  • ...Cherokee who were living in Western style houses. The Cherokee were living inside of antebellum mansions before settlers turned them into Plantations. The antebellum mansions look like Roman palatial estates and are covered in pagan symbols and have pagan murals inside. Truth is they have been hiding the real history of North America for centuries and only the wisest see through the lies.
    • KD: I would not surprised, but I have never heard of this Cherokee mansions story. A very intriguing piece of information it is. If one of our forum members would look into it, and, may be, post a related thread.. would be awesome.
Also from the Reddit post: All Roads lead to Rome Georgia. It is called Rome because that is the Cherokee called their land. To their dying breath they claimed to be from Rome and were Romans. They were expelled from their land and lost their property in the 1830s.


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Artist Pam Jeffries' rendition of Major Ridge's original log cabin home - circa 1820

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This is the basement. It has a basement.​

Major Ridge's first house here was small and built of handhewn logs, in the dogtrot style. He made later additions to formally enclose the dogtrot and added extensions at each side, creating a white wood-frame two-story house. This was the big house of his busy 223-acre plantation...
1545353656929.png

This portrait of Major Ridge was painted by Charles Bird King in 1834 and published in History of the Indian Tribes of North America.
Along with Charles R. Hicks and James Vann, Ridge was part of the "Cherokee triumvirate," a group of younger chiefs in the early nineteenth century Cherokee Nation who supported acculturation and other changes in how the people dealt with the United States. All were of mixed race and had some exposure to European-American culture, but identified as Cherokee. Ridge became a wealthy planter, slave owner and ferryman.
- The history of Rome, Georgia extends to thousands of years of human settlement by ancient Native Americans.

- The Compact of 1802, formally Articles of Agreement and Cession, was a compact between the United States of America and the state of Georgia entered into on April 24, 1802. In it, the United States paid Georgia 1.25 million U.S. dollars for its central and western lands (the Yazoo lands, now Alabama and Mississippi, respectively), and promised that the U.S. government would extinguish American Indian land titles in Georgia.
The commitment to evict the Cherokee was not immediately enforced. Through the 1820s and 1830s, chiefs Major Ridge and John Ross led efforts to stop their removal, including several Federal lawsuits.

Searching: I have a Master's Degree. Here is a list of all the things my educated dumb ass learned from this research.
  1. I learned Native Americans built two-story log cabin houses and lived in them.
  2. I learned Native Americans were plantation owners.
  3. I learned Native Americans owned slaves on the plantations they owned.
  4. I learned that in the early 19th century, All (Cherokee) were of mixed race and had some exposure to European-American culture, but identified as Cherokee.
  5. I learned that the Cherokee were filing federal lawsuits in the 1820's and 30's in an effort to keep their land. Along with Charles R. Hicks and James Vann, Ridge was part of the "Cherokee triumvirate,"...
Triumvirate is an interesting word choice:
I learned from school, Gunsmoke, and Dances with Wolves that Native Americans did not speak English and lived in teepees so they could follow buffalo around. Not once did I ever see or hear about them wearing colonial garb and filing federal lawsuits to keep their plantations and slaves.

Maybe ya'll know more about this than I did, but knowing this now kinda makes me think that there could be something to the theory that the Cherokee were the Romans who built the Greco-Roman architecture in the United States.
 

KorbenDallas

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Rome, GA.jpg

I liked this portion from Wikipedia as it pertains to Rome, Georgia:
  • The city has developed on seven hills with the rivers running between them, a feature that inspired the early European-American settlers to name it for Rome, the longtime capital of Italy. It developed in the antebellum period as a market and trading city due to its advantageous location on the rivers, by which it sent the rich regional cotton commodity crop downriver to markets on the Gulf Coast and export overseas.

Would be interesting to see if this Rome, GA it matches to anything on the older maps. Apparently Sherman did his regular "burning" in the city in 1864. So much for the victory, right?

Getting into the actual architecture could be a daunting task on this one. But here are a few interesting 1886 (?) photograph. So, we had a flood in 1886. By the way, the width of these streets was remarkable.

Rome_1886_Flood_of_1886_Broad_Street_looking_south_from_in_front_of_Masonic_Temple_Building_No...jpg

RomeFlood1886-23.jpg

And of course, we have an Underground Tour going. "Evidence of the original level of downtown is still visible for those curious enough to brave the trip to the basements of several Broad Street buildings."

roman_underground_tour.jpg roman_underground_tour1.jpg
Nice iron Column

What kind of archives could push us towards some possible Cherokee architecture connections?
 
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Searching

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Cherokee Gothic is a term coined by Frank Lloyd Wright for a vernacular architectural style used on the campus of the University of Oklahoma. The term was invented by Wright while on a tour of the school's grounds, and, when coined, applied to Bizzell Memorial Library and Evans Hall. More recently, new construction under former university president David Boren have been designed to resemble and evoke the earlier Cherokee Gothic buildings. Buildings in the style resemble Collegiate Gothic structures found on other campuses, although they are made from brick and light stone.
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Bizzell Memorial Library
When the university opened in 1890, the university library was located in the only campus building, which was destroyed by fire in 1903. A new library was constructed and opened in 1904, but the university's needs and collections quickly outgrew a space that was intended to last for decades. The Oklahoma Legislature appropriated $75,000 in 1917 to construct yet another library building that could be expanded in the future, but subsequent legislatures did not appropriate necessary funds to allow the project to move forward.
In 1927, state officials budgeted $500,000 for construction of a new, three-story library. New facilities included a "treasure room" to hold rare books and special collections and separate spaces for graduate and undergraduate work: Bizzell Memorial Library

Several groups of Cherokee towns were present in the southern Appalachians during the period of early European contact in southeastern North America. Different dialects of the Cherokee language were spoken in these discrete areas, although Cherokee town groups were connected by kinship and shared language and tradition. The Lower Cherokee towns were located in northeastern Georgia and northwestern South Carolina, along the headwaters of the Savannah and Chattahoochee rivers. The Middle Cherokee towns were situated along the headwaters of the Little Tennessee River in southwestern North Carolina. The Out Towns were located along the Tuckasegee River, and the Valley Towns along the upper reaches of the Hiwassee River, both in southwestern North Carolina. The Overhill Cherokee towns were located along the lower Little Tennessee and Tellico rivers in eastern Tennessee.
Cherokee Plantation is a historic house in Fort Payne, Alabama. The house was built in 1821 as a two-story log cabin by Andrew Ross, a judge on the Cherokee Supreme Court and brother of Principal Chief John Ross. In 1834 a second log cabin was built connected to the rear of the original cabin, and a third was built to the northeast, separated by a breezeway. Ross, being one-eighth Cherokee, was forced to leave his home in 1838 under the provisions of the Treaty of New Echota, of which Ross was a signatory; a portion of the Cherokee Trail of Tears passes in front of the house.
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UnusualBean

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#4
I know some users on this forum don't believe Rome existed, but I've personally thought for a while now that the eastern US was full of Roman colonies, and that that's the main reason TPTB colonized America in more recent history.

Genetically, the Cherokee people mainly come up a mix of the classic "red" native, and various Mediterranean (aka Roman) results. This strongly backs up the common claims of the Cherokee people not being a race, but a civilization.
 

GroundhogLfe

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I knew the Cherokee were living in stone houses instead of the traditional nomadic way. I also know some have called them the star people and I think that they should be preserved.

I personally question hard the 2000 year old Roman culture as the way we're being told about it. I do know that those buildings and such existed even in a later time, but perhaps already then. I'm currently leaning towards crediting them to a previous core culture of Europe rather than "Rome" and how that culture consisted mostly of what we call the "Ancient Greek" culture nowadays. Who they really were I do not know for sure and can only speculate, but I have some ideas.

To add to the top if I'm not wrong the Cherokee do indeed have a lot of European looking people amongst them so they might've come from Europe, partially at least. They would deserve a deep and well done research to their antiquity, that much is granted. Some books actually also do suggest that at least some Indians in the NA are a mixture of mingling up with the original European people and the lineage given to them through this made them not relate anymore to the original oppressors or the Europeans either so came to be in the north-eastern and eastern part of the NA. We have the Maori aspect from Iran/India as well that I've brought up at least a couple of times here as well.

When saying they are of Rome in the face of an extinction war, I must ask would one say that just to save themselves or why would they emphasize that at that point? The ones making a war surely should know who they are, perhaps saying you were a Roman was an attempt to save themselves if they looked more like Europeans? I must question all that and we cannot create the link to them just on that basis and the style of houses they lived in, but we cannot ditch it either and that information must be held close by.
 
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Novusod

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This old newspaper clipping mentions the mansion "Malmason" which was once owned by a Cherokee Indian chief Greenwood Laflore. There is also the chief Vann house which is still standing. My theory is that many of the antebellum houses were originally built by the Cherokee who considered themselves to be the decedents of ROME. These mansions were simply stolen from the Cherokee during the trail of tears.





 

cthatruth18

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Folks, the Indians were Russians/Rus'Aryans from Tartary, its pretty simple whats going on. We have been colonized and our history rewritten.



I know most won't believe this but these "Things" aren't from this planet. Watch 'The Thing" from John Carpenter. They infect and take the shape of other humans and/or breed with them and cause fighting and wars amongst humans. Everyone on this planet were called Aryans at one time before the invaders set foot here.

 
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Novusod

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Folks, the Indians were Russians/Rus'Aryans from Tartary, its pretty simple whats going on. We have been colonized and our history rewritten.

I know most won't believe this but these "Things" aren't from this planet. Watch 'The Thing" from John Carpenter. They infect and take the shape of other humans and/or breed with them and cause fighting and wars amongst humans. Everyone on this planet were called Aryans at one time before the invaders set foot here.
I suspect that is too much truth even for the readers of this forum.
 

sonoman

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fascinating topic but I find it doubtful. ive also read things such as the Tsalagi (Cherokee) were Jew-ish which I also find doubtful. my GGGrandmother was Tsalagi, she had twelve children with a scottsman as the father. interesting tidbit. totem poles were not idols, they were the post-office.

I doubt it's too much, but claims like that require some serious substantiation, and a separate thread, for, directly, it has little to do with Cherokee architecture.
maybe 'heir-ians'?
 

GroundhogLfe

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I suspect that is too much truth even for the readers of this forum.
I doubt that at least not for all of us. I made a possible link for the root of that evolution in one of my posts yesterday. This could be a nice thread of it's own to elaborate these thoughts more. Just not to tie it up too tight with the topic so it can allow some flow of the mind as well for elaboration.

fascinating topic but I find it doubtful. ive also read things such as the Tsalagi (Cherokee) were Jew-ish which I also find doubtful. my GGGrandmother was Tsalagi, she had twelve children with a scottsman as the father. interesting tidbit. totem poles were not idols, they were the post-office.



maybe 'heir-ians'?
On one of my hypothesis both of these actually might make sense that if the Cherokee had some Germanic ancestry in them, they could've possibly made the claim for Rome AND "jewry". I elaborate that they would still not be the people who built those things in Europe for the most part. It's really on an abstract phase and I cannot establish any support for it yet, but it's lining up to be a logical possibility. I will elaborate that in the future times unless I can debunk it on my own.
 
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BStankman

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I suspect that is too much truth even for the readers of this forum.
That is a pretty bold statement to say about a community that has already accepted history is a lie.

5CivTribesPortraits.jpg

All of the Five Civilized Tribes lived in the Southeastern United States before the government forced their relocation under Indian Removal Act to other parts of the country, especially the future state of Oklahoma. This act, signed into law by President Andrew Jackson in May, 1830, required that all Native American tribes living east of the Mississippi River relocate to lands west of the river.
 

cthatruth18

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I doubt it's too much, but claims like that require some serious substantiation, and a separate thread, for, directly, it has little to do with Cherokee architecture.
I'll try to make a topic/post soon about information i've gathered. Basically from what I can gather, this planet has become a harvest planet for non-humans entities.


V (1983 miniseries) - Wikipedia
HELLENE and CHAOS: I used to not believe this stuff at first, but seeing so many cohencidences over the years I am really starting to believe it.

 
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Searching

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This is a comment under JonLevi's latest vid, False Historical Narrative:

My great grandparents said that the government was lying to us about how old everything is. They were Native American Indian. I have records dating back to 1500s from my ancestors. Book of Congress has records on Native American Indian tribes from 1300s living in the old city's.

Some of the Tribes (built them) and the Spanish. Spain/Mexico had a war with Texas Republic 1600s Then White government started removal of Native American Indian tribes to Arkansas and Oklahoma. I am mixed with Irish/Klamath/ Choctaw blood. I have a old Bible date's to 1388. It's written in Cherokee/and some English. Show's one ancestor from Dublin Ireland married to Choctaw Louis Miller. The Native American people did use the Woman's maiden name. Anyway my membership tribes Klamath from Oregon Has records from over 5000 years ago. We have kept them secret. I also have 6 years of American history in my college. And ancestry genealogy. Our school history books lie. Talk about government cover ups.
 
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UnusualBean

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Lots of Scottish and Irish marriages to Natives in this thread... there's one in my family history, too :unsure:

fascinating topic but I find it doubtful. ive also read things such as the Tsalagi (Cherokee) were Jew-ish which I also find doubtful. my GGGrandmother was Tsalagi, she had twelve children with a scottsman as the father. interesting tidbit. totem poles were not idols, they were the post-office.
The Cherokee weren't exclusively Jewish, but there are ethnically Jewish Native Americans. The Mediterranean is a strongly represented region in Native DNA.
 

Laluna

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That is a pretty bold statement to say about a community that has already accepted history is a lie.


All of the Five Civilized Tribes lived in the Southeastern United States before the government forced their relocation under Indian Removal Act to other parts of the country, especially the future state of Oklahoma. This act, signed into law by President Andrew Jackson in May, 1830, required that all Native American tribes living east of the Mississippi River relocate to lands west of the river.
Out of all the tribes in existence anyone ever questioned why these were considered "civilized" yet many other tribes still exist to this day. Imo these tribes' histories have all been compromised especially the "Cherokee." But that's a new thread.

As far as the Cherokee building all the southern mansions, nope. Take a trip to Louisiana, plenty of plantations. One "roman" style one does come to mind:

"Belle Grove, also known as Belle Grove Plantation, was a plantation and elaborate Greek Revival and Italianate-style plantation mansion near White Castle in Iberville Parish, Louisiana. Completed in 1857, it was one of the largest mansions ever built in the South, surpassing that of the neighboring Nottoway."
Belle Grove Plantation (Iberville Parish, Louisiana) - Wikipedia

Has interesting double history (at least) with one story of a typical rich owner and architect but another where an old man named Mr. Bell was the original owner.
Belle Grove Plantation, Louisiana and the Ware Families Who Owned It | Ware

It would be interesting to know who old man Mr. bell was. Might be a record from an old clerks conveyance office.
 

sonoman

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#19
Lots of Scottish and Irish marriages to Natives in this thread... there's one in my family history, too :unsure:


The Cherokee weren't exclusively Jewish, but there are ethnically Jewish Native Americans. The Mediterranean is a strongly represented region in Native DNA.
Scott/Tsalagi(Cherokee) marriages were very common in Appalachia (Blue Ridge/Smokey Mnts) and it is a very distinct/noticeable ethnicity still to this day here. but until DNA testing can be DIY, I dont much trust any corporations results.

Might be a record from an old clerks conveyance office.
finding old public records of the south is very difficult not only because every court house was burned (with precision) but it has been an ongoing situation even to this day to steal and destroy any remaining ones.

we and many others can not even find a trace of family records. that is the main fact that makes me angry about all this stolen history. they struck our roots! an effort to sever all connections to the divinity within.

interesting read on the subject and even that is getting harder to find now: Into the LIGHT: (My) History Destroyed in Franklin County

there were several whistle blower sites on this a year or two after it happened, today it was difficult to find this one. really this region deserves its own thread. Franklin was at one time a State itself.

TNGenWeb Project, State of Franklin, East Tennessee Pre 1796.

and this Franklin North Carolina courthouse where the records were stolen (by the Feds) is on the Tennessee border.
 
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Searching

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Reading that Native Americans were mixed with Scottish/Irish, I retrieved this tidbit of info from my memory. Makes much more sense now.

In the winter of 1847, the people of Ireland were suffering from a devastating famine. Meanwhile, members of the Choctaw Nation of American Indians, one of the five great southern tribes of the United States, met in a small town in Indian Territory called Skullyville. There, members of the tribe discussed the experiences of the Irish poor. It was proposed that they would gather what monies they could spare. This wasn’t going to be much in the wake of their recent removal from their tribal homelands east of the Mississippi River.

Ultimately, they collected $170, a sum roughly equivalent to $5,000 (£3,900) today. Rather than use what money they had to buy badly needed resources in the new territory – land, food, housing, and so on – the tribe made the altogether remarkable decision to send a goodly portion of their money to those who were starving and destitute in Ireland.
How a small Native American tribe helped ease starvation in the Irish famine
 
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