Efimok coin, Fomenko's phantom time and added 1,000 years of history

KorbenDallas

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#1
Could not really help it but start this thread on the issue of date depictions. It appears that at some undetermined (so far) time we acquired this digit "1" in the year date on a more or less permanent basis. Prior to it we have either "I - (i)" or the same "I" but looking like "J". I kinda knew that Fomenko and Nosovsky talked about the issue, but I never really gave it enough attention. Recently, I started running into these "date issues" left and right. Figured to start this thread displaying a collection of items presenting those interestingly looking date depictions.

1450 ≠ i450 = j.450

For those who do not know what I'm talking about. Is there a difference between 1689 vs. I689, or 1636 vs. J.636, or 1712 vs i712? There probably is, and the difference could equal to approximately 1000 phantom non-existent years.

I guess this "i or j" preceding the date could mean "from Jesus", with "i or j" being the first letter in the word "Jesus". Whatever language is being used for these i-j's, I'm not sure. We have all those Latin, Greek, etc languages where Jesus looks like jesua, isus, iisus, isuthi... Help out please, if you know.

Arabic Numerals: Adoption in Europe
The reason the digits are more commonly known as "Arabic numerals" in Europe and the Americas is that they were introduced to Europe in the 10th century by Arabic-speakers of North Africa, who were then using the digits from Libya to Morocco.

arabic-numbers.jpg

The European acceptance of the numerals was accelerated by the invention of the printing press, and they became widely known during the 15th century. Early evidence of their use in Britain includes: an equal hour horary quadrant from 1396, in England, a 1445 inscription on the tower of Heathfield Church, Sussex; a 1448 inscription on a wooden lych-gate of Bray Church, Berkshire; and a 1487 inscription on the belfry door at Piddletrenthide church, Dorset; and in Scotland a 1470 inscription on the tomb of the first Earl of Huntly in Elgin Cathedral.

Of course, the official position, as far as I understand, explains it that "I" was used instead of "1". While this is definitely true, to a considerable degree, some of the examples clearly show that "1" was used as well. Below is an image predating 1733.

1733_2_1.jpg

1733_3_1.jpg

1733 book_1_1.jpg

A Few Examples

For me it started with this 1597 revolver.
J.636 / 1636
oldest-revolver_1.jpg

The other day I was looking at the Pyramids with tombs of the Tartarian Kings? The thread has a linked 1626 map showing the following depiction of year 1290.

i290 / 1290
i290_1.jpg

Significant, that the very same map shows the below legend, where "1", and not "i" appears to have been used. Then again, may be it is "i", but without the dot.

i290_2_1.jpg

Today I was looking at the first American paper money. I think this particular below large size cut out is a proposed 1690 Massachusetts $20 dollar bill. This appears to be done by hand, and "I" appears to be just that - a letter "I".

I690 / 1690
massachusetts-money.jpg

But then, we run into examples like below, and it throws all the above theories off. It has both "1", and "I", with "I" being used as "1".

1690-the-first-paper-money-in-America.jpg

And immediately we can see these perfect "1's" on this colonial 2 shilling paper.

US-Colonial_(MA-87.15)-Massachusetts-1_May_1741.jpg

A Few More

old_year_2_1.jpg

old_year_4_1.jpg

old_year_3_1.jpg

* * * * *
KD: Just wanted to see what forum members think about these I, J, i, meaning 1, and the phantom 1,000years in general.

It appears to me that the issue is more complex than just a thousand added years. I keep on thinking that the reason 1,000 years was added on one end, because another 1,000 years (or whatever many) was taken out on the other. We have this landmark when Peter the Great went from year 7,207 to 1,700. I have hard time imagining how 5.5k years of national history get erased just like that. Can you imagine, if tomorrow our governments decide that starting on January 1st, 2019 it is going to be year 50 instead of 2019?
  • In 1699 Peter changed the date of the celebration of the new year from 1 September to 1 January. Traditionally, the years were reckoned from the purported creation of the World, but after Peter's reforms, they were to be counted from the birth of Christ. Thus, in the year 7207 of the old Russian calendar, Peter proclaimed that the Julian Calendar was in effect and the year was 1700.
In other words the reasons for such drastic changes had to be serious enough to justify all the troubles the government would have to go through.

I learned recently that in Russia there is this bizarre coin marked with the imprinted date of 1655. They call it "Efimok" There are two major issues with this coin.

Efimok_s_priznakom_1655_1.jpg

original #s look more like "1" vs. "I"

  • 1]. There could be no year 1655 in Russia, for the first conventionally displayed years could only be 1699, or 1700. Otherwise the coin was supposed to display year 7,162. How could they know in 1655 what Peter the Great would do 45 years later?
  • 2]. The (not so much) Russian coin "Efimok" was made using the Dutch Thaler Coin. What happened in Russia to cause them to use Dutch coins?
Interesting things are hidden in our fake history... :unsure:
 

ISeenItFirst

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#3
I been wondering about the "I" years myself. So far that amounts to keeping an eye out for it, don't have much data to even propose a theory, but I like the way you guys are thinking.

The green color is highly indicative of copper. I always wondered why more of those stone buildings didn't show green on them, if they were all made with copper chisel.

I'm not sure I'll be convinced until I find a decent motive for the date change. What is gained by such a change?
 
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gregory5564

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#4
The main sources for the life of Jesus are the four canonical gospels, which are part of the New Testament. They were originally written in Greek, which at the time was the language of education and culture. In the Greek text, the name is spelled Iēsous. However, since the native language of Jesus was Aramaic (according to consensual history, the Jews, by 500 BC, had switched their native language from Hebrew to Aramaic), it is accepted that his actual name in Aramaic was Yeshua, and that Iēsous was a Greek distortion. The Romans learned from the Greeks, calling him Iesus. During, I believe, the Middle Ages, a new letter, J, was invented, and I's which occurred before other vowels (such as in the Latin words maior and maiestas) became written as J's (major, majestas). However, the pronunciation of J was the same as I or Y. That is why Germans even today pronounce Johann as "Yohan." Some centuries later, though, the pronunciation of the letter J in English changed, leading to our current pronunciation.
 
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Maria

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#5
A book "The Modern History of Russia" stated there was only two companies that held the contract to import and export all commodities in and out of Russia. One of those companies was a Dutch company and that can explain why the Dutch Thaler coin. Also note that Netherlands was on the Julian calendar and England was on the Gregorian calendar, there was a year difference instead of just two weeks. More strangeness.
 

gregory5564

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#6
These are the two books from which I learned about calendars:

Developing Time-Oriented Database Applications in SQL (1999)
Calendrical Calculations (1997)

The Julian Calendar was flawed because it considered a year to be 365 days. The true length of a year, measured in days, is not a whole number, but rather, approximately 365.24219. Thus, after centuries of using the Julian Calendar (assuming consensual history) the seasons will drift, causing winter to start in January and last until March. This became unacceptable and Pope Gregory XIII used his authority both to shift the date back by two weeks, and to institute a Leap Day which occurs every four years.
 
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gregory5564

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#8
What I would like to know, what year number was it in let’s say 50 BC. What did they refer to it numberwise?
During the Roman Empire, people did not use year-numbers. Instead, they indicated the date of events by stating which king it happened under, and how many years into that king's reign. During the early Dark Ages, a Christian monk named Dionysius Exiguus determined through reasoning that Christ's birth happened 527 years ago. Thus, he proposed to call the current year 527, and this suggestion was adopted by the community.

How did Dionysius determine which year was AD 1?

Dionysius knew from the Canonical Gospels that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great and of Emperor Augustus. In his time, people celebrated the birthday of Jesus on December 25, a date which roughly corresponds, I believe, to the winter solstice. It was well known by Christians that Jesus died on a Sunday, specifically on Easter. Dionysius assumed that Jesus at that time was 30 years old. This was disputed by later historians or theologians. Today, it is commonly held that Jesus died at 33 years old.
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#9
During the Roman Empire, people did not use year-numbers. Instead, they indicated the date of events by stating which king it happened under, and how many years into that king's reign. During the early Dark Ages, a Christian monk named Dionysius Exiguus determined through reasoning that Christ's birth happened 527 years ago. Thus, he proposed to call the current year 527, and this suggestion was adopted by the community.

How did Dionysius determine which year was AD 1?

Dionysius knew from the Canonical Gospels that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great and of Emperor Augustus. In his time, people celebrated the birthday of Jesus on December 25, a date which roughly corresponds, I believe, to the winter solstice.
Hmm, in 1700 Russians knew it was year 7207. Somebody out there was counting in a more or less conventional way.

Apologies, the official version of counting sounds very insultive and disrespectful towards people who had to use pretty advanced mathematics... that is if we were to believe the official version.
 

whitewave

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#10
Dionysius knew from the Canonical Gospels that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great and of Emperor Augustus. In his time, people celebrated the birthday of Jesus on December 25, a date which roughly corresponds, I believe, to the winter solstice. It was well known by Christians that Jesus died on a Sunday, specifically on Easter. Dionysius assumed that Jesus at that time was 30 years old. This was disputed by later historians or theologians. Today, it is commonly held that Jesus died at 33 years old.
Christians didn't celebrate the birthday of Jesus on December 25; that was a "pagan" holy day (Saturnalia). In fact, birthdays weren't celebrated (except by some of the elite). In those days they celebrated the day of a famous persons death since you couldn't know when they were born if they were going to be someone worthy of celebration. That's why we have many more dates of people's deaths than we do of their births.
Also Easter is a corruption or Anglicization of Ishtar-a fertility goddess. The Catholic church incorporated many pagan practices into their corrupted Christian religion, co-opting the Christian religion and turning it into the pagan -practice filled churchianity it is today.

Doesn't have anything to do with the Efimok coin but I thought I should clear that up. Carry on.
 

Magnus

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#11
During the Roman Empire, people did not use year-numbers. Instead, they indicated the date of events by stating which king it happened under, and how many years into that king's reign. During the early Dark Ages, a Christian monk named Dionysius Exiguus determined through reasoning that Christ's birth happened 527 years ago. Thus, he proposed to call the current year 527, and this suggestion was adopted by the community.

How did Dionysius determine which year was AD 1?

Dionysius knew from the Canonical Gospels that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great and of Emperor Augustus. In his time, people celebrated the birthday of Jesus on December 25, a date which roughly corresponds, I believe, to the winter solstice. It was well known by Christians that Jesus died on a Sunday, specifically on Easter. Dionysius assumed that Jesus at that time was 30 years old. This was disputed by later historians or theologians. Today, it is commonly held that Jesus died at 33 years old.
So much wrong.

Jesus died on a Friday, after Passover.

And rose three days later, on a Sunday.

Early Christians celebrated Christ birth around the birth of creation, usually Sept 11
Hmm, in 1700 Russians knew it was year 7207. Somebody out there was counting in a more or less conventional way.

Apologies, the official version of counting sounds very insultive and disrespectful towards people who had to use pretty advanced mathematics... that is if we were to believe the official version.
The scriptures provide geneologies so we may count back to the year of Adam, the first man's creation. Its how the Russians and ancient tribes of Israel did it
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#12
If there was a force out there intending on faking the history, the scripture would have been the first thing to alter. IMO of course.
The scriptures provide geneologies so we may count back to the year of Adam, the first man's creation. Its how the Russians and ancient tribes of Israel did it
What are the sources these statements are based on?

Russians could not use the scripture up to approximately 988 AD, if we were to believe the official version: Christianization of Kievan Rus', yet they kept up with the count just fine. Slavic Russia had a totally different spiritual basis: Slavic Native Faith.

Nowhere do we see something similar to "Year 6756 from Adam". So, I naturally was wondering what verbiage (or numerical value) was used to indicate the year of 50 BC.
 

whitewave

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#13
Especially since there were different rulers at different places. Does Cyrus say "during the 1st year of my reign...." or does he say "during the 23rd year of the reign of so and so"? How in the world would all these rulers (and their subjects) keep up with what year it was if it was just the ruling years of a particular individual?

Plus, I'm curious, if in 1700 the Russian date was 7207 and currently the Hebrew date is 5 thousand something, is/was there a civilization whose dating is/was even older?
 

gregory5564

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#14
Christians didn't celebrate the birthday of Jesus on December 25; that was a "pagan" holy day (Saturnalia). In fact, birthdays weren't celebrated (except by some of the elite). In those days they celebrated the day of a famous persons death since you couldn't know when they were born if they were going to be someone worthy of celebration. That's why we have many more dates of people's deaths than we do of their births.
Also Easter is a corruption or Anglicization of Ishtar-a fertility goddess. The Catholic church incorporated many pagan practices into their corrupted Christian religion, co-opting the Christian religion and turning it into the pagan -practice filled churchianity it is today.

Doesn't have anything to do with the Efimok coin but I thought I should clear that up. Carry on.
Christ's birth was celebrated on Saturnalia subsequent to the legalization of Christianity by Constantine the Great. It is the opinion of the some people that Constantine corrupted the religion, and therefore subsequent Christians do not deserve the title of Christians. There are even theories that the "true Christians" of this time fled to the mountains in Italy and France, where they reemerged a thousand years later, during the Waldensian movements and the Protestant Reformation. However, this is merely a clash of definitions, not a factual contention.

So much wrong.

Jesus died on a Friday, after Passover.

And rose three days later, on a Sunday.

Early Christians celebrated Christ birth around the birth of creation, usually Sept 11


The scriptures provide geneologies so we may count back to the year of Adam, the first man's creation. Its how the Russians and ancient tribes of Israel did it
That was a mistake, sorry. I meant to say that Jesus was resurrected from death on Sunday, as stated by the page which I linked. Also, it may have been true that Christians before Constantine the Great celebrated Christ's birth on September 11th (I haven't seen a source for this), but after the legalization of Christianity by Constantine the Great, the birth of Christ became celebrated on Saturnalia. If you dispute that the people from then onwards should be considered "early Christians" or even "Christians," that is a personal rather than an academic contention.

The truth is that, within 2-3 generations of the eleven original apostles, church-leaders were already starting to mix Christianity with elements of paganism and of Greek philosophy. Some of the most respected early Christians such as St Augustine were former pagan scholars who infused Christianity with pagan-related concepts. I do not wholly dismiss the idea that Christianity was commandeered by foreign elements during the first few generations of its existence, but there is little historical evidence of a fight occurring between the "pure Christians" and the "pagan Christians" and of the fleeing of the former when the latter became dominant. Many Protestants would like to believe in such a story. If you have sources to support this, I would like to see.
 
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BStankman

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#15
. I do not wholly dismiss the idea that Christianity was commandeered by foreign elements during the first few generations of its existence, but there is little historical evidence of a fight occurring between the "pure Christians" and the "pagan Christians" and of the fleeing of the former when the latter became dominant. Many Protestants would like to believe in such a story. If you have sources to support this, I would like to see.
No evidence the church was corrupted by the Babylon mystery religions?
Have you seen the Vatican?
The council of Nicaea. The inquisitions and reformations. the Cathars of France
Francis Bacon editing the KJV....

Let there be light(bringer)
bible.jpg

Vienna church steeple before invasion.
vienna.jpg
 

gregory5564

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#16
I am personally an Episcopalian, not a Catholic, but knowledgeable Catholics will say that the Inquisitions were political decisions pursuant to Catholicism, not part of Catholicism proper. You can be against the Inquisitions and still be a faithful Catholic. As for Freemasonry, it was only invented in 1717. According to Proofs of a Conspiracy (1797) by John Robison and numerous other sources, the Freemasons were enemies of Catholicism and their goal was to destroy the church. Among very devout Catholics today, there is the belief that the Freemasons in 1963 performed a ritual in Vatican City which corrupted the Catholic Church (cf. Windswept House (1998) by Malachi Martin). This ritual, known as the Enthronement of Lucifer, not only led to the moral decay of the church in the present day, but is even responsible for the high levels of child molestation by priests (cynics, to the contrary, will argue that child molestation was always a problem and that it is only being uncovered in recent decades).
 

Magnus

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#17
No evidence the church was corrupted by the Babylon mystery religions?
Have you seen the Vatican?
The council of Nicaea. The inquisitions and reformations. the Cathars of France
Francis Bacon editing the KJV....

Let there be light(bringer)
View attachment 9578

Vienna church steeple before invasion.
View attachment 9579

Before even Jesus Christ was born, Babylon corrupted the Israelite worship of Yahweh.

The Babylonian Talmud.

The worship of foreign gods. Weeping for Tamuz. The sacrifice of children to Baal and Molech (passing children through the fire) this was all learned in the Babylonian captivity after Jerusalem was razed and Nebuchadnezzar carried off to Babylon the poets and intellectuals and priests and engineers and blacksmiths and anyone with any ability
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#18
Lol, almost got sucked into it. May be I should write an article on Baal.

Sounds like we need a history of Christianity thread.

Let’s try to get back on track of the phantom time and date depiction via numersls please.
 

whitewave

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#19
Interesting pic there, BStankman. The Vienna church steeple pic looks to be about mid to late 14th century. (Viennese siege by the Ottomans in 1529?) The cannons and muskets alone are kind of a giveaway on that one. Also saw a couple of figures in there with what looked like those Jedi swords.

On that Efimok coin, I was looking at the date upside down and read it as 5591. :)
 

gregory5564

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#20
Lol, almost got sucked into it. May be I should write an article on Baal.

Sounds like we need a history of Christianity thread.

Let’s try to get back on track of the phantom time and date depiction via numersls please.
If Dr Fomenko is correct (though I have trouble believing in the full extent of his theory), Grand Tartary was the origin of most of European culture, including the Gothic style of architecture. He claims that the noble families of Europe are descended from refugees fleeing the destruction of Grand Tartary. As the generations went on, they re-wrote their history, wrote new pieces of literature which they purported were ancient works, and even, if Dr Fomenko is to be taken seriously, invented new languages to distance themselves from their Russian heritage.

Assuming that the general outline of this theory is true, I am thinking that perhaps the "J" in front of a three-digit year was from Tartary's calendar, but after the Mud Flood c. 1800, these shadowy elites took advantage of the confusion to change the interpretation of "J" into 1. This also explains why I have never seen a "J" year for 1800 or after. Correct me please if I am wrong. What is the latest "J" year that you can find? Let us test this theory.
 
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