Impossible Vorontsov Palace, Crimea

Apollyon

Well-known member
Messages
99
Likes
353
#1
I remembered this place while looking at world maps trying to gain an understanding on the devolution of the label Tartaria. How in the 16th-17th century we see the label Grand Tartaria sometimes Tataria which later seems to split into 3 or four different regions Russian Tartaria - Chinese Tartaria - independent Tartaria until 1840ish when the label disappears all together the last areas being those surrounding the Aral Sea which is just a stones throw away from the Crimean peninsula. (Aral Sea situation is one of the reasons why I'm such an optimist just look at the amazing restoration work taking place)

I will attempt to paraphrase a Russian blogger zodchi1 who visited the palace and thoroughly documented the strangeness.

To start we see the front gates which fuse with the natural dolerite landscape. Huge dolerite boulders can be observed.

35538_600.jpg 35283_600.jpg 34439_600.jpg 34854_600.jpg 36102_600.jpg 35984_600.jpg

The researcher notes that there are clear signs of restoration

36511_600.jpg 36971_600.jpg vorontsov-palace-ukraine-crimea-https-enwikipediaorg-wiki-vorontsov_palace_alupka_vdmmj5ttl__F...png

The author wants us to pay special attention to the window openings.

36737_600.jpg
yup.jpg

Were looking at whole window frames hued from a single block of stone.

37498_600.jpg 38387_800.jpg 57240_900.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-09-01 at 1.30.17 PM.png

Also pay attention to these small turrets they are hollowed out.

38534_800.jpg 38745_600.jpg 45885_600.jpg

The author takes note of the bas relief carvings on the door frame

39264_600.jpg 39671_600.jpg

One is left to wonder what sort of milling cutters are needed for this work. The author speculated about the casting of stone but ultimately says that what he sees on the ground is more equivalent to mechanical processing. We notice the mechanical processing marks.

39898_800.jpg 40038_800.jpg 40695_800.jpg 40342_800.jpg 40726_800.jpg

The author notes that the processing on the stone fence lower and away from the palace is different, or has it been eroded by water?

41085_800.jpg 41314_800.jpg

Author notes that some part of the palace are missing or broken and we do not see armature in the rubble indicating its natural origin. Also we see quarts veins which would only be seen in natural stone.

41698_600.jpg 41968_600.jpg 43232_800.jpg

The author thinks that the weathering on the stairs looks like they were exposed to water at some point. also some kind of red discoloring the author thinks is algae

42075_800.jpg 42345_800.jpg 42687_800.jpg 43002_800 (1).jpg

The author notes the peculiar effort that went into shaping the bottom of the staircase. And at the bottom of the staircase... pagan statues.

43763_600.jpg 43939_600.jpg 44286_600.jpg 44354_600.jpg

The first point that needs to be made is this whole gosh darn thing is supposedly chiseled from diabase stone which has a hardness that rivals Granite. And in keeping with that classic soviet humor the museum presents us with the tool that created all this.

47606_800.jpg
By the way, the hardness of iron is 300-600 MPa (from the grade of steel), and the hardness of diabase is 630 MPa.

The next feature of this building we will look at is the marble sculpture garden and the marble Medici lions which were marveled by Winston Churchill.

Even if the evidence indicates that the diabase stone was processed with advanced machinery was this how the marble was also done? I have my doubts.

44786_600.jpg 45214_600.jpg 45443_600.jpg ISeMj9c.jpg 7am2Jt6.jpg 5cU6fbB.jpg CYQQlIX.jpg mdoXY3N.jpg I90lTVx.jpg 1Uwyayi.jpg h5Hbp2P.jpg Gp4X9Mi.jpg y3dbKK4.jpg tg35A5t.jpg FFFFFFFFFF.jpg

The strangeness certainly doesn't stop with the out side. Of course we must have a look at the inside.

We have old lithographs of both the front and back each indicate lack of vegetation

46315_800.jpg
46477_800.jpg

The stairs seem to head straight into the sand. And the pagan idols are under that sand somewhere.

46658_800.jpg
106_0683.JPG

46968_800.jpg

Here's a painting showing more vegetation, from this water color dated to 1834 we can say that the current water level is much lower than in the past.

47241_800.jpg

This display with images from the early to mid 20th century shows the lower stairs and pagan idols which were seen buried in the lithograph.

Inside we have a number of fire places to contemplate. The author doesn't recognize this color granite and thinks this is a modern replica maybe made from geo-polymer.

47744_800.jpg 47937_800.jpg

The author points to the grey granite fireplace as being possibly original.

48423_800.jpg 48136_800.jpg 48894_800.jpg

The author says that upon close inspection it is clear that this stone is old not just its texture but also its intricacy far out matches the first red granite fireplace.

49046_800.jpg 49306_800.jpg 49891_800.jpg 49994_800.jpg

And this is another fireplace. Central, the largest.

50313_800.jpg 50460_800.jpg 50852_800.jpg 51131_800.jpg 51372_800.jpg 51571_800.jpg 51780_800.jpg


The author talks a bit about the symbology and the crest but it goes over my understanding so read the original for that.

There is also a marble fireplace

52778_800.jpg 53198_800.jpg


Source:
part 1
part 2

Apollyonic notes: So basically we have a weird building, a mix of euro castle style to moorish style. But we also have this rubble construction and a certain erosion that points towards cataclysm. We have a confiscation of water of sorts from the time of the watercolor probably early 1900 and today. All in a region which last held the title of Tartaria.
 
Last edited:

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,125
Likes
3,969
#2
Well, what do we got? Built between 1828 and 1848 by the same guy - Edward Blore - who restored Buckingham Palace in 1850.

The gate embedded in the rock makes you wonder what happened, or how it got in there. It

Judging by those window frames, they used laser guided ultra hard heavy duty computer chisels. Kidding of course. Here is another testament to how little do we know. These windows alone are insane. I'm not even talking about all the intricate inside and outside details.

The place is utterly beautiful. Was just looking at some old pictures. Barely any are out there unfortunately.

vorontsov_palace_3.jpg

vorontsov_palace_1.jpg vorontsov_palace_4.jpg vorontsov_palace_5.jpg vorontsov_palace_7.jpg

How could they build this? Or... did they?
 

BStankman

Well-known member
Messages
163
Likes
446
#3
I see restoration work going on.
This is patched concrete that hasn't lasted well in a freeze thaw cycle. The vertical looks like the work of a sponge float.
42687_800.jpg

This looks like is stucco over something. Probably concrete.
If it is not that, then we have two different kinds of stone bonded together.
Evidence that it was buried in sand stone and then later chiseled out.
43002_800 (1).jpg

Things like this are impossible to carve from solid stone
FFFFFFFFFF.jpg
 

ISeenItFirst

Well-known member
Messages
289
Likes
376
#4
Not to take away from all the other intersting bits, but I can clearly see the seams in the stone window mullions. Not one piece. It should have been much more apparent in person, which makes me wonder about the rest of the info.
 
OP
OP
Apollyon

Apollyon

Well-known member
Messages
99
Likes
353
#5
Not to take away from all the other intersting bits, but I can clearly see the seams in the stone window mullions. Not one piece. It should have been much more apparent in person, which makes me wonder about the rest of the info.
The guy who was actually there says they are one piece and I don't see any reason to doubt that from the photo. Please point to what you think you are seeing. If you're talking about the different bricks on the side you will notice they aren't outlined as part of the single unit inner frame.
 

BStankman

Well-known member
Messages
163
Likes
446
#6
This is a weird anomaly.
The split face block texture everywhere, but the overhang looks smooth and mitered.
split face.jpg


Also, when a building is excavated from stone it is usually much harder to see the original joint work that was used the original construction.
You barely can see them in Petra here in the columns.
jordan_petra_al_khubtha_14.jpg
 

ISeenItFirst

Well-known member
Messages
289
Likes
376
#7
The guy who was actually there says they are one piece and I don't see any reason to doubt that from the photo. Please point to what you think you are seeing. If you're talking about the different bricks on the side you will notice they aren't outlined as part of the single unit inner frame.
Look just above and below the center horizontal portion. Just above and below the intersection.

I've built things like this, there are obvious seams that would have been more apparent in person.
 

davewave

New member
Messages
19
Likes
5
#8
Look just above and below the center horizontal portion. Just above and below the intersection.

I've built things like this, there are obvious seams that would have been more apparent in person.
That was my first thought. There's seams in that window.
I see restoration work going on.
This is patched concrete that hasn't lasted well in a freeze thaw cycle. The vertical looks like the work of a sponge float.
View attachment 7944

This looks like is stucco over something. Probably concrete.
If it is not that, then we have two different kinds of stone bonded together.
Evidence that it was buried in sand stone and then later chiseled out.
View attachment 7945

Things like this are impossible to carve from solid stone
View attachment 7947
Check out Apollo and Daphne by Bernini. Insane things can be accomplished in marble.
 
Top