Kingdom of the Cimmerian Bosporus and a framework for medieval history

GroundhogLfe

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#1
I will just make a quick post regarding this topic of interest and will add once I get my laptop.

As a quick reference the link to Wikipedia article for base information: Bosporan Kingdom - Wikipedia

There are more effective researchers here so perhaps someone will take interest and is able to add more.

Here are the questions that arise for me here:

-Is Spartocus the real Spartacus and the one we are commonly represented a hoax? This one is also said to be a Thracian and the area was said to be a Roman province. A tyrant instead of freedom fighter.
-The Thracians were also called the Getae and we know that in the past as part of the Scythians there were the Massagetae in the Asia / Tartaria. The word massa can also mean 'red' so it could very well have meant 'the red Getae'. Perhaps a link to the infamous warlike 'red jews' can be found from there as well living beyond the mountains.
-You can also find texts regarding the civil war between Scythia and Cimmerians where the Cimmerians chased the Scythians. There was a lot of movement to be said back and forth around the continents.
-There are also some similarities between the cultures of the Vikings and the Massagetae like in weaponry and position of women if I recall it right. The position of strong women in Sparta might be a connection as well.
-The Irish are the Gaelic people, the Scots claim to be descended from the Scythians and we have the Welsh of 'Cymru'. This with the above could indicate that Europe has been at one point been overrun with these people.
-I also question the official narrative of the Rome. Perhaps they are completely separate from the Byzantheum. Perhaps the 'Holy Roman Empire' originated from the east rather. Julius Caesar was often depicted with a double headed eagle in medieval pictures.
-Julius Caesar also on his book made comments how the Gaul (Gaelic?) were fighting Germans and we Finns call Germany with the name Saksa aka Saxony aka Saka / Scythia? A bit loose, but I find something to investigate. Old english language was much more closer to german language than what it is today.

spartacus_1.jpg

The framework:

I also have a framework worked out how all this could tie in to the sea peoples as the Vikings officially visited mediterranean and then eventually as a continuation the crusades. All it needs is the proof that timeline is not correct and I think Fomenko established that in his scientific work on the inconsistencies of lunar cycles on official history even though I actually disagree on his interpretation of everything being about Russia, that to me sounds like a Soviet demand. But his science we can use and overall his work is great reference for ideas and some solid ground.

I will also add my hypothesis to this framework that as the sea peoples (Vikings / Getae / Goths / Jutes) were won by Egypt it could be that Egypt expanded eventually to become the Byzantine empire, the vacuum already existed there.

Need to investigate the possibility of Ethiopia / Egypt / Abyssinia / Axium angle to Byzanthine. The history of Axium is of great interest, at one point it just vanishes. Eventually Byzanthine would win over in Europe and the 'Rome' we are told about would have expanded the other way around to Europe and was actually the Byzantine. It is really interesting also to have the find for Babylon possibly really being in Egypt also from the other thread here. The rastafari who were brought as slaves from Africa identify the slavery and have oral tradition that it's all the Babylon system.

Also Kievan Rus had to eventually adapt Orthodoxy and eventually mingled with Byzantheum. This also explains why older church leaders were usually depicted as darker figures and why there has been whitening out happening. It was harder for the white Europe to accept a black Madonna and a black god to worship. White Jesus came much later and it's paintings and icons are much newer. It also explains why the old church meetings always happened in the Byzantine area like Nicaea

It would explain the use of Obelisks around the world.

The empire was also called the Latin empire and we would know why Spain and Italy are called latin countries. Also Latin America <-> 'Byzanthine' America?

It could give more depth and context to the 'Spanish inquisition'.

There would also be explanation for the black nobility of Europe and perhaps even the Dutch legend of Zwarte Piet taking children. The black knights. Even Mozart is said to have been of darker skin tone.

The Turkic people would later add their mix to all this with the with the capture of Constantinople and wars to Europe. It has been said that Islam was originally a Turkic religion.

A mess in Europe for all the wars of different mixture of people would be ready.

Problem is where does catholism fit it, I would understand it being started as a counter force for the Orthodoxy with peope being resentfull for something brought from Africa and instead having a unifying force of it's own. There is the history of having rival popes in France for example, perhaps it started there? There would be a lot of struggle, corruption and attempts to take it over within however.

Perhaps Carthage / Hannibal would fight Byzantheum instead of 'Rome'.

If the Byzanthine elite would want to destroy their connection to the past, wouldn't it have made sense to clear out the traces by suppressing the African people who might've known who they are or were? Why was the slave trade mostly targeted to western Africa where you had a high culture in Timbuktu with still a lot of remnants of those scrolls today. This would tie everything together.

This all is not to whitewash others as the victors and losers all have some sick inviduals, even today.

A lot of thoughts on the fly, need to see if some dots can be connected. :)

Ps. Covering history also makes sense if you want to unify people. It would still be a path of fear though. But at some point sins of the fathers and mothers are easier to forgive and the past can be dealt with for global peace to really happen. All nations have had their wars and crimes.

Pps. It would still leave in question even more ancient history.
 
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KorbenDallas

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#2
I do not know much about Spartacus apart from what the traditional version states. From what the other unrelated topics show, anything is possible. To contribute on Spartacus I will need to spend some time playing with this topic.

As far as geographical, and nation names go, we could be up for a big surprise. It could be that some of the names, i.e. Egypt, are totally the invention of the historians, or monks who were tasked with re-writing the history. I noticed that making sense out of various names is very hard, for things are extremely convoluted once you go beyond textbook versions, and look into specific instances personally.
 
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GroundhogLfe

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#3
Indeed many names can be overlapping and they could be names or descriptions of kingdoms and tribes by different people, many names for one and the same. It would be very easy to mix them up. Like I am confident that Massagetae was just a description of a Getae people the red Getae rather than a kingdom of it's own with no relation to them, but we can all be wrong as well. The Thracians were described to be of red of hair often as well.

Egypt / Aegyptus could very well be something that just started to live it's own life out of something small among writers.

I expanded the topic from Cimmerian Bosporus and Spartacus so I welcome all kinds of scrutiny and ideas on all of these or even expand them to a topic of their own if someone is on the same trails. I have tried to glue this framework up for quite some time and some of those came up on the fly as I was wrapping this up.

+

And btw. one of these possible name mix ups could be between Sumer and Cimmeria. If you try to pronounce them they might sound awfully similar. And I am leaning towards ancient Sumer being bs as represented to us. There is a lot of thoughts to play around. The represented Sumerian language has some proto Turkic words there as far as I've been reading and the Cimmerians at least ventured through Tartaria. Perhaps Axium expanded there instead of Byzantium and Cimmerian Sparticid dynasty found a 'mountain passage 'beyond the continent. Instead of Sparta defending the 'Greek' world the Spartocid Cimmeria attacked it. Many things could be upside down and they make us cheer for their heroes.

+

Wild goose hunt for names or perhaps not. Abyssinia, a byssinia, byzz... you know where I'm getting at.
 
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KorbenDallas

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#5
I think we have too many topics within this single thread. Experience demostrates it’s hard enough to keep one topic from getting derailed, let alone 5-10 topics derailing each other.

I like the Spartacus portion, and at some point would love to get a closer look at what could be hidden eithin his story.
 

Paracelsus

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#6
I will just make a quick post regarding this topic of interest and will add once I get my laptop.

As a quick reference the link to Wikipedia article for base information: Bosporan Kingdom - Wikipedia

There are more effective researchers here so perhaps someone will take interest and is able to add more.

Here are the questions that arise for me here:

-Is Spartocus the real Spartacus and the one we are commonly represented a hoax? This one is also said to be a Thracian and the area was said to be a Roman province. A tyrant instead of freedom fighter.
-The Thracians were also called the Getae and we know that in the past as part of the Scythians there were the Massagetae in the Asia / Tartaria. The word massa can also mean 'red' so it could very well have meant 'the red Getae'. Perhaps a link to the infamous warlike 'red jews' can be found from there as well living beyond the mountains.
-You can also find texts regarding the civil war between Scythia and Cimmerians where the Cimmerians chased the Scythians. There was a lot of movement to be said back and forth around the continents.
-There are also some similarities between the cultures of the Vikings and the Massagetae like in weaponry and position of women if I recall it right. The position of strong women in Sparta might be a connection as well.
-The Irish are the Gaelic people, the Scots claim to be descended from the Scythians and we have the Welsh of 'Cymru'. This with the above could indicate that Europe has been at one point been overrun with these people.
-I also question the official narrative of the Rome. Perhaps they are completely separate from the Byzantheum. Perhaps the 'Holy Roman Empire' originated from the east rather. Julius Caesar was often depicted with a double headed eagle in medieval pictures.
-Julius Caesar also on his book made comments how the Gaul (Gaelic?) were fighting Germans and we Finns call Germany with the name Saksa aka Saxony aka Saka / Scythia? A bit loose, but I find something to investigate. Old english language was much more closer to german language than what it is today.


The framework:

I also have a framework worked out how all this could tie in to the sea peoples as the Vikings officially visited mediterranean and then eventually as a continuation the crusades. All it needs is the proof that timeline is not correct and I think Fomenko established that in his scientific work on the inconsistencies of lunar cycles on official history even though I actually disagree on his interpretation of everything being about Russia, that to me sounds like a Soviet demand. But his science we can use and overall his work is great reference for ideas and some solid ground.

I will also add my hypothesis to this framework that as the sea peoples (Vikings / Getae / Goths / Jutes) were won by Egypt it could be that Egypt expanded eventually to become the Byzantine empire, the vacuum already existed there.

Need to investigate the possibility of Ethiopia / Egypt / Abyssinia / Axium angle to Byzanthine. The history of Axium is of great interest, at one point it just vanishes. Eventually Byzanthine would win over in Europe and the 'Rome' we are told about would have expanded the other way around to Europe and was actually the Byzantine. It is really interesting also to have the find for Babylon possibly really being in Egypt also from the other thread here. The rastafari who were brought as slaves from Africa identify the slavery and have oral tradition that it's all the Babylon system.

Also Kievan Rus had to eventually adapt Orthodoxy and eventually mingled with Byzantheum. This also explains why older church leaders were usually depicted as darker figures and why there has been whitening out happening. It was harder for the white Europe to accept a black Madonna and a black god to worship. White Jesus came much later and it's paintings and icons are much newer. It also explains why the old church meetings always happened in the Byzantine area like Nicaea

It would explain the use of Obelisks around the world.

The empire was also called the Latin empire and we would know why Spain and Italy are called latin countries. Also Latin America <-> 'Byzanthine' America?

It could give more depth and context to the 'Spanish inquisition'.

There would also be explanation for the black nobility of Europe and perhaps even the Dutch legend of Zwarte Piet taking children. The black knights. Even Mozart is said to have been of darker skin tone.

The Turkic people would later add their mix to all this with the with the capture of Constantinople and wars to Europe. It has been said that Islam was originally a Turkic religion.

A mess in Europe for all the wars of different mixture of people would be ready.

Problem is where does catholism fit it, I would understand it being started as a counter force for the Orthodoxy with peope being resentfull for something brought from Africa and instead having a unifying force of it's own. There is the history of having rival popes in France for example, perhaps it started there? There would be a lot of struggle, corruption and attempts to take it over within however.

Perhaps Carthage / Hannibal would fight Byzantheum instead of 'Rome'.

If the Byzanthine elite would want to destroy their connection to the past, wouldn't it have made sense to clear out the traces by suppressing the African people who might've known who they are or were? Why was the slave trade mostly targeted to western Africa where you had a high culture in Timbuktu with still a lot of remnants of those scrolls today. This would tie everything together.

This all is not to whitewash others as the victors and losers all have some sick inviduals, even today.

A lot of thoughts on the fly, need to see if some dots can be connected. :)

Ps. Covering history also makes sense if you want to unify people. It would still be a path of fear though. But at some point sins of the fathers and mothers are easier to forgive and the past can be dealt with for global peace to really happen. All nations have had their wars and crimes.

Pps. It would still leave in question even more ancient history.
It wasn't Mozart who had the darker complexion, it was Beethoven. As for the Scythians, there is a tremendous overlap with the Celts/Gauls.
Gaesatae - Wikipedia
On the Question of Relations Between Celts and Scythians
The Scythians - Illustrated History of Ireland
Origin of the Celts - Caucasian, not European

"Caucasians" are more diverse than most races in the world. I for one have a very interesting look, to many people I appear Jewish based on the curly hair and long nose. But my ancestry is almost entirely Celtic or Cherokee. The Scythians/Celts history seems like it is actively supressed by modern historians. Either they are viewed as brilliant metallurgists or violent savages whose only ambition was unrelenting conquest.

I'm starting to think it was Rome that started the whole "Jews are responsible for the evils of the world conspiracy." Khazars are clearly Scythian, and Celts intermingled freely with the Scyths, and I'd imagine the Tatarians lived with both. This was the civilization that was the closest and most direct opposition to Rome.
 
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GroundhogLfe

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#7
It wasn't Mozart who had the darker complexion, it was Beethoven. As for the Scythians, there is a tremendous overlap with the Celts/Gauls.
Gaesatae - Wikipedia
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2753/AAE1061-1959020317
The Scythians - Illustrated History of Ireland
Origin of the Celts - Caucasian, not European

"Caucasians" are more diverse than most races in the world. I for one have a very interesting look, to many people I appear Jewish based on the curly hair and long nose. But my ancestry is almost entirely Celtic or Cherokee. The Scythians/Celts history seems like it is actively supressed by modern historians. Either they are viewed as brilliant metallurgists or violent savages whose only ambition was unrelenting conquest.

I'm starting to think it was Rome that started the whole "Jews are responsible for the evils of the world conspiracy." Khazars are clearly Scythian, and Celts intermingled freely with the Scyths, and I'd imagine the Tatarians lived with both. This was the civilization that was the closest and most direct opposition to Rome.
I'm on the theory that the jews as represented to us are based on a hoax in what their real origins are. It is a very sensitive line of thinking, but even from the bible you can find the mention of the fake ones. Benjamin Freedman did establish the evolution of the use of the word in his book 'facts are facts' and how the letter j came to fruition only in the later 16th century. Before this the word was mostly different forms starting with the letter g. There is a good reason to leave open that the Massa'getae' were the 'red jews' as a misconcept of even linking them to israelis or judeans or even by intent if some of them had already previously been to Europe. Who would not have wanted to represent themselves as the 'chosen people' to a continent that had a religion based on them.

As for the Romans there is also a good reason to suspect that their antiquity is not true. Julius Caesar is depicted with the double headed eagle of Russia / Holy Roman empire in medieval pictures. He also wrote in his book on the conquest of Gallia about how the Veneti are a massive naval power and about their fights against the Helvetii (Swiss?) and Belgiae. To me that book reeks of medieval times. Especially when in the official history Venetians came a power much later. This book has elements in it that could go against the official narrative so I'm compelled to think it is authentic. Perhaps the Romans did come up with that blame the jews narrative, but it just happened much later.

I think that not any one group of people like the jews are behind the evils of the world, I've been there as well, so that angle is very familiar. Surely there are criminal jews, whites, blacks, asiatics etc. and even on the megalomaniacal level. Live in fear and you lower yourself to the level of the wicked and they will poison your world. Also if any one group is behind the falsification of history it has been done so out of fear. I like to hoax myself to think it positively that it is about trying to unify people by giving us a dark age where information has been suppressed so sins of the fathers and previous hostilities could be forgiven with time. Things look pretty positive now from where I am standing. Love the truth unconditionally and live truthfully for it to surface.

ps. I still can't post links with my tablet at ease and can't access notes easily so I will add sources and the links later to my posts.
 
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Yergen

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#8
The rastafari who were brought as slaves from Africa identify the slavery and have oral tradition that it's all the Babylon system.
I don't understand what you mean by this, can you elaborate a little?

Fantastic thread btw!
 
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GroundhogLfe

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#9
I don't understand what you mean by this, can you elaborate a little?

Fantastic thread btw!
They talk about the modern society being of "Babylon". I brought it up as an on the fly thought because of the fantastic find on Babylon being inside the borders of modern Egypt on some maps on another thread from here and as I have been speculating the possibility of Byzantium originating from there as an expansive force. They were really disliked in Europe as were the egyptians.

I wanted to just give more depth to that possibility from the possible oral history of the slaves who might've known something. Where would that word Babylon even come to them as they surely were not allowed to bring any of their books with them, so it's either oral history or later education of some sort. There is also a loose link from there to Timbuktu that was viewed as a highly educated place and most of the slaves were brought from western Africa. They surely would've had important knowledge.

This all is very loose, but it could tie up easily together and bring a logical understanding why things have progressed the way they have. I have a lot of work ahead on this. :)

Korben wanted this to be more of the Spartacus angle of if this Cimmerian tyrant could be the real one and the antique from slave to a freedom fighter a hoax. I'm fine elaborating it, but if it gets messy and torn perhaps other threads on them later then.

And most of all these were all just ideas that I will be working on myself and it would be interesting if someone was on the same trails and already had something to add.

Ps. I'm not a very good scholar as my resiliency for the ground work is poor. But I am a pretty damn good trashbin for leeching all kinds of information and can easily digest and sort them to their own boxes which could be matched with which in my head. I am also highly intuitive and watch the whole scenarios developing from high the space instead of from details first. First building the big picture, then start to work it out do the pieces fit in something like this is my method. More like a problem solver than a scholar.
 
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Yergen

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#10
Ps. I'm not a very good scholar as my resiliency for the ground work is poor. But I am a pretty damn good trashbin for leeching all kinds of information and can easily digest and sort them to their own boxes which could be matched with which in my head. I am also highly intuitive and watch the whole scenarios developing from high the space instead of from details first. First building the big picture, then start to work it out do the pieces fit in something like this is my method. More like a problem solver than a scholar.
Don't worry, i'm the same way. Learning how to present information and research it, it's hard! I think a lot of us just see it as a pattern, and we try to make sense of it like a puzzle.
 

Magnus

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#11
Conan the Barbarian was known also as Conan the Cimmerian.

Prolific author Robert E Howard might offer some clues, and I think his map and creation of Conan the Adventurer and short stories and tales of wizardry and adventure and peoples and lands can offer some insights!
As an example, the Stygians are considered the evil snake worshippers, and they hail from an area in the desertlands known as The Sons of Shem.

Cimmeria was north, perhaps geographically the future area of Tartaria.

This fictional realm was titled by Howard: The Hyborean Age... Long before the oceans swallowed up Atlantis...

Its a more intense world than Game of Thrones and highly recommend reading the original short stories, if you are a guy, they are fucking awesome and will make you feel like you are practically Conan! Some of the best and easiest/ fastest reading of all time

images (2).jpeg 300px-Hyboria_map1950.jpg
 

Paracelsus

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#12
Conan the Barbarian was known also as Conan the Cimmerian.

Prolific author Robert E Howard might offer some clues, and I think his map and creation of Conan the Adventurer and short stories and tales of wizardry and adventure and peoples and lands can offer some insights!
As an example, the Stygians are considered the evil snake worshippers, and they hail from an area in the desertlands known as The Sons of Shem.

Cimmeria was north, perhaps geographically the future area of Tartaria.

This fictional realm was titled by Howard: The Hyborean Age... Long before the oceans swallowed up Atlantis...

Its a more intense world than Game of Thrones and highly recommend reading the original short stories, if you are a guy, they are fucking awesome and will make you feel like you are practically Conan! Some of the best and easiest/ fastest reading of all time

Robert E. Howard has an interesting connection with H.P. Lovecraft, they were pen-pals for years and Lovecraft encouraged Howard's writing. They were all part of the Cthulu mythos/cosmic horror archetype of the time. All the stories have the "memories of an earlier time" theme that runs through them.

I haven't read Howard yet, but I became an obsessive Lovecraft reader for a while. Seems like we aren't the first to remember an ancient civilization shrouded in mystery, but vaguely remembered.

If you write history as fiction it is ravenously consumed, but presented as non-fiction, it is ignored and ridiculed.
 
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