Legendary city of Norumbega: could it be Washington, DC?

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,798
Likes
8,266
#1
I'm gonna attempt to tackle this Norumbega, a.k.a city of Bega, Nurumberg, Nurumbega, Nurembega, Norobega, Oranbega legend. There are quite a few fascinating occurrences related to this so-called "legendary settlement" located in the northeastern part of North America. Reading the official narrative of Norumbega, it appears that they do not outright dismiss its existence, but rather reduce its "correct" description to nothing but a small settlement. Obviously, the houses with pillars of gold, and inhabitants who carried quarts of pearls on their heads are being officially presented as an example of a 500 year old vivid imagination. To be fair, we do have very very old texts questioning the existence of this Norumbega City.

Terra do Nurumbega
1611 - Norumbega_et_Virginia_1.jpg

1611 - Norumbega et Virginia
  • First appearance on a map: originally spelled Oranbega in Giovanni da Verrazzano's 1529 map of America
    • Oranbega was allegedly discovered by Verrazano's brother during his 1524 voyage
  • First land of Norumbega description: In 1542-43 Jean Alfonse described a land he called Norombega.
    • The river is more than 40 leagues wide at its entrance and retains its width some thirty or forty leagues. It is full of Islands, which stretch some ten or twelve leagues into the sea. ... Fifteen leagues within this river there is a town called Norombega, with clever inhabitants, who trade in furs of all sorts; the town folk are dressed in furs, wearing sable. ... The people use many words which sound like Latin. They worship the sun. They are tall and handsome in form. The land of Norombega lies high and is well situated.
  • First (and last?) visit of he city of Norumbega: In 1568-69 by David Ingram
Wikipedia Narrative - link
  • Norumbega, or Nurembega, is a legendary settlement in northeastern North America which appeared on many early maps from the 1500s until American colonization. The houses were said to have pillars of gold and the inhabitants carried quarts of pearls on their heads.
  • Jean Allefonsce in 1542 reported that he had coasted south from Newfoundland and had discovered a great river. It often appeared on subsequent European maps of North America, lying south of Acadia in what is now New England. The town of Bangor, Maine, embraced the legend in the nineteenth century, naming their municipal hall "Norumbega Hall". In 1886 inventor Joseph Barker Stearns built a mansion named "Norumbega Castle", which still stands on US Route 1 in Camden, Maine, overlooking Penobscot Bay.
  • In the late 19th century, Eben Norton Horsford linked the name and legend of Norumbega to supposed Norse settlements on the Charles River, and built the Norumbega Tower at the confluence of Stony Brook and the Charles in Weston, Massachusetts, where he believed Fort Norumbega was located. In honor of Horsford's generous donations to Wellesley College, a building named Norumbega Hall was dedicated in 1886 and celebrated in a poem by John Greenleaf Whittier.
  • The word "Norumbega" was originally spelled Oranbega in Giovanni da Verrazzano's 1529 map of America, and the word is believed to derive from one of the Algonquian languages spoken in New England. It may mean "quiet place between the rapids" or "quiet stretch of water".
  • Today, the myth is reflected in such place names as Norumbega Mountain (formerly Brown Mountain) in Acadia National Park.
The Legend of Norumbega
Apparently, the "legend" of Norumbega, was in part attributed to a certain illiterate British sailor named David Ingram. He made his way from Texas to Maine, and beyond to the St. John's river, where he was picked up by a friendly French ship and carried to France, and so got home to England. The journey across North America took him about eleven months, but one of his comrades, Job Hortop, had no end of adventures, and was more than twenty years in getting back to England. Ingram told such blessed yarns about houses of crystal and silver, and other wonderful things, that many disbelieved his whole story, but he was subjected to a searching examination before Sir Francis Walsingham, and as to the main fact of his journey through the wilderness there seems to be no doubt.

Suspicious fact: Ingram’s narrative of his alleged travels, A true discourse of the adventures and travailes of David Ingram, was published in 1583, but no copy is known to survive (see W. A. Jackson, “Humphrey Dyson’s library,” Amer. Biblio. Soc. Papers, XLIX (1949), 285, and Roanoke voyages (Quinn), I, 3–4). It was reprinted by Richard Hakluyt in Principall navigations (1589), 557-62, only (and in Voyages of Gilbert (Quinn), II, 283-96).

  • David Ingram (dates uncertain) was a 16th-century English sailor and explorer who claimed to have walked across the interior of the North American continent from Mexico to Nova Scotia in 1568. Ingram signed on with English privateer John Hawkins in 1567 to raid and trade along the coasts of Portuguese Africa and Spanish Mexico. In November 1567, he was marooned with some 100 of his shipmates near Tampico on the coast of Mexico, about 200 miles south of the present Texas/Mexico border. Ingram and two dozen of his party struck out northward into the interior to avoid capture by the Spanish, and disappeared off the map. 11 months later, in October 1568, Ingram and two others of his original party were picked up from the coast of Nova Scotia by a French fishing vessel. How they got there is attested only by Ingram's own account, written down 13 years later in 1582 by Sir Francis Walsingham (Ingram himself was illiterate) and published in 1589 in Richard Hakluyt's "The Principall Navigations Voiges and Discoveries of the English Nation of 1589." Hakluyt's second edition in 1599 did not contain Ingram's account, possibly suggesting Hakluyt's doubts about it. Samuel Purchas commented on this writing that “It seemeth some incredibilities of his reports caused him to leave him out in the next impression, the reward of lying [being] not to be believed in truths.” Ingram returned to the new world in 1583 with Sir Humphrey Gilbert in his unsuccessful attempt to establish an English settlement in Newfoundland.
  • He reported a populous and prosperous land dotted with large settlements, divided into a multitude of what he calls kingdoms with kings "carried by men in a sumptuous chaire of Siluer or Christal, garnished with divers sortes of precious stones.", mostly friendly and eager to help him along his journey. At the same time, much of his description of the country and its inhabitants seems fanciful, at least partly cobbled together from things he had seen or heard in his travels up and down the coasts of Africa and South America (he reported encountering elephants, a beast with "eyes and mouth … in his breast," and great cities "five or eight miles one from the other", e.g. "Bariniah, a Citie a mile and a quarter long" and that the Indians called certain birds "penguins" which he thought was just one of many Welsh words they used). Nevertheless, it is peppered with intriguing tidbits, including what may be the first recorded description of an American bison. Some scholars have questioned the entire story on the grounds that it would have been physically impossible to walk over 3,000 miles through the wilderness in only 11 months, but in 1999 British writer Richard Nathan retraced Ingram's journey in reverse, walking from Nova Scotia to Tampico in just 9 months.
You will find it difficult to find these names in the history books and they are not easy to find on the internet. They are not among the lists of the great explorers, although David Ingram has an entry in the Dictionary of Canadian Biography under the heading ‘Explorer’ (David Quinn, 1966). Nonetheless these three illiterate English sailors made one of the most amazing journeys of all the amazing journeys in the Age of Discovery.
The Castaways
The Long, Forgotten Walk of David Ingram
Biography – Ingram, David – Volume I (1000-1700)
Given that the original text published in 1583 has no surviving copies, the best version of Ingram’s account we have is called Land Travels of Davyd Ingram. I have my doubts as to why "no copy is known to survive". May be today's scholars should check for one at the Vatican Library Secret Archives. At least they know what the name of the text is.
He saw kings decorated with rubies six inches long; and they were borne on chairs of silver and crystal, adorned with precious stones. He saw pearls as common as pebbles, and the natives were laden down by their ornaments of gold and silver. The city of Bega was three-quarters of a mile long and had many streets wider than those of London. Some houses had massive pillars of crystal and silver.
Ingram was interviewed (interrogated?) by Peckham and Walsingham in 1582: Richard Hakluyt’s Principal Navigations, Voyages, Traffiques and Discoveries of the English Nation.


Latin Language
Norumbega language sounding like "Latin" added a peculiar twist to this entire story-legend. This fact, or speculation is obviously not verifiable from whatever angle you approach the issue.

Puzzle from David Ingram: 16th century Penguins - here is some penguin etymology for consideration.

:geek: Penguins in North America? :geek:
penguin_north_america.jpg

Penguin_Ingram.jpg

Land Travels of Davyd Ingram: Penguins

Etymology
Official: the word "Norumbega" was originally spelled Oranbega in Giovanni da Verrazzano's 1529 map of America, and the word is believed to derive from one of the Algonquian languages spoken in New England. It may mean "quiet place between the rapids" or "quiet stretch of water".

Now, I'm not an expert in the origin of words, but something in the official narrative was smelling of "we do not really know, but here is a version for you". I googled some, and found this 1884 book "The Discoveries of America to the Year 1525, Volume 1" by Arthur James Weise. I read Mr' Weise's explanation, and was surprised to see all the speculations he indulged in, to get his point across: pages 348, 349, and 350.

With one of the original spellings being "Nurumbega", it appeared that we had a two part word with "nurum", and "bega" being the parts. I turned to Google Translate.


Additionally, Norumbega was also being referred to as "city of Bega". One way or the other, the only more or less constant part of the word appears to be this "bega".


With 16th century maps being predominantly in Latin, "nurum" very quickly produced "a daughter". The "bega" part proved to be more challenging, for it was not really producing anything. For sure, this "bega" could have been some sort of a derivative from "berg". I did find "berga" on one of the maps, and naturally my "bega" investigation could be based on the misleading info. Anyways, I figured that "bega" could be a name, kind of like "Nurum Bega". You can imagine my surprise when I found a candidate for this "bega" person, who ended up being an Irish Princess.

Saint Bega

  • St. Bega (other forms of her name are Begh and Bee) is said to have been Irish, though it is not clear whether she lived in the eighth or ninth century. In any case she was a virgin who led a holy life in north-western England. The legend says that she was an Irish princess, the most beautiful in her kingdom, who fled from her native land to avoid marriage with a pagan Viking—a Norwegian prince. Guided by an angel, Bega refused a pagan husband, as she wanted to devote her life to the Heavenly Bridegroom - Christ. Having crossed the Irish Sea and survived shipwreck, she was thrown ashore in the area to the south of the present-day Cumbrian town of Whitehaven in Copeland (in the north-west of England). Seeing in this a sign from God, Bega settled there in solitude and for many years lived as an anchoress.
  • With time she may have founded a convent, though the nuns may have appeared after her repose, since the anonymous author of her life indicates that the holy virgin lived alone at Copeland. This convent was later called St. Bees after the saint.
Nurum_Bega.jpg

"The most likely time for this (KD: Saint Bega's existence) would have been after AD 850, when the Vikings were settling Ireland." - Wiki

Nurum_Bega_1.jpg

Celts to the Creche: St. Bega of Bees
Commemorated: Saint Bega, Anchoress of Cumbria
St. Bega - Saints & Angels
Saint Bega - Wikipedia
Saint Bega - Newman Connection - Effingham, IL

Norumbega_word_3.jpg

  • Bega crosses the sea in this boat and lands at St. Bees in western England where she lived for several years in the thick forests of Cumbria as a hermitess. She performs at least nine miracles while living there.
  • Overtime, she begins to fear pirates who are landing in the area, so she quickly flees the area leaving her sacred arm-band behind on purpose so that miracles can continue in this place that sheltered her.
  • Where did she go?
As we can see, she might have fled from Cumbria. The question is - where to?

KD: Anyways, I do not know if my name interpretation has any scientific merit, but this version is mine, and for the time being I'm sticking to it. It does appear that wherever this legendary Irish princess ended up after fleeing Cumbria is not set in stone. With all the "Viking-American" connections present in history, why not America? Would a princess run on her own, or accompanied by some loyal knights? I do not know, and I do not think the official version knows either.

Of additional interest could be certain historic artifacts associated with Saint Bega, who, at least for a period of several years, was associated with the village of Saint Bee in Cumbria. Here are some of those artifacts.

st bees solar cross.jpg

Saint_Bega_1.jpg Saint_Bega_2.jpg Saint_Bega_3.jpg Saint_Bega_4.jpg Saint_Bega_5.jpg Saint_Bega_6.jpg
Source for the above mages: Old European culture: St Bega

Maps
This is probably my favorite part of the entire research, for all of the above can very easily produce some major headache. I prefer simple sequence, i.e., "This guy said it was here, and these mapmakers placed it here on their maps. Now let's look at the maps". Unfortunately with this approach Norumbega's story would be too dull.

So, what do we have for Norumbega on the maps? Quite some I have to say, but first let's see where our current scientist place Norumbega area on the today's map. Don't get me wrong, they do not entertain an idea of the City of Bega having been located there. It is, more or less, the area where this "never found" city was predominantly looked at for. Yup, they deliberately looked for it in the area where it was never located to start with.

Penobscot Bay, Main
Penobscot_Bay_Norumbega_1.jpg

Vicinity of the Penobscot Bay in Main, this is where the search for Norumbega was supposedly conducted at. I put a little red star next to the general area of the search.
  • Norumbega was not found here: 44°34′03″N and 68°48′02″W

The end result we know - the City of Bega was never found. Meanwhile a whole bunch of places in the State of Maine, as well as Massachusetts, started to display the word "Norumbega" as a part of their name.
Norumbega_Tower.jpg

Apparently Boston could be a possible candidate for the Norumbega City location. At least Andy Woodruff presents an interesting case in his article
I do not know about you, but with all the contradicting information (this does not pertain to the Woodruff's article above) pertaining to a multiple other places, I put little trust in what was, or was not found. Same goes for whether it was destroyed for one, or the other reason. We have plenty of evidence of cities being destroyed by the so-called "urban fires".
Older Maps
As we came to find out, outlines of our continents have changed since those older maps were produced. The official history insists on "creative imagination", and "incompetency" of the cartographers of the past. Sure there had to be some of that. The question is to what extent? In my opinion, these geographic changes took place 400-500 years ago, and at the time, the maps were more, or less reflecting the genuine state of geo affairs. Of course, we do need to remember, that 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries are full of historical forgeries and such.
After all who within the constraints of the dogmatic narrative would advertise the existence of a Europen looking city on a newly discovered continent of North America? So there you have it. Long story short, I think this City of Bega, or Norumbega could be what we call the City of Philadelphia, or Baltimore today. Though I'm leaning towards Washington D.C. Here is my non-scientific approach to this hypothesis.

Norumbega a.k.a:
(pick one, for I'm not sure which one it is)

  • Philadelphia
  • Baltimore
  • Washington D.C. - my choice
1611
Norumbega et Virginia

1611 - Norumbega_et_Virginia_12.jpg

Norumbega et Virginia

Chesipooc Sinus (lat. for Bay or Gulf) = Chesapeake Bay. Roanoke Island (NC) is marked with a tooltip on the left portion of the below map. The Chesapeake Bay entrance on the left portion of the map was added by me.

Roanoke_Island_5.jpg

The below compilation does not match as nicely as the above one. Things are not as much to scale. Whatever the reasons are, remains to be determined. There were a lot of strange outline changes in our recent past, well, at least it appears that way. One way or the other, this Norumbega appears to be very far from the State of Maine and its Penobscot Bay. Yet, this is where the search was supposedly conducted.

Washington_DC_9_1.jpg

  • The river is more than 40 leagues wide at its entrance and retains its width some thirty or forty leagues. It is full of Islands, which stretch some ten or twelve leagues into the sea. ... Fifteen leagues within this river there is a town called Norombega, with clever inhabitants, who trade in furs of all sorts; the town folk are dressed in furs, wearing sable. ... The people use many words which sound like Latin. They worship the sun. They are tall and handsome in form. The land of Norombega lies high and is well situated.
To be fair, I have to mention, that Nurumbega exists on the maps as a City, and as a Region. I could not help myself with the below year i584 Michael Lok map. Had to add it.

i584
Michael_Lok_i582_Map_1_2.jpg

i584 Michael Lok map

1570
Part of Abraham Ortelius' atlas from 1570, showing "Norvmbega" among other somewhat mythical names. Any guesses why the names are considered to by "mythical"?

OrteliusWorldMap1570_1.jpg

In reality, there are quite a few maps displaying Norumbega.

******​

KD: This is Part I. Part II can be found via the link below,
 

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
395
Likes
1,551
#2
I'm tired just from all the reading and I'm just getting started. You should write mysteries, on second thought that is exactly what you are doing and doing a bang up job of it.

I really don't know what to think right now, except Norumbega seems to be a real city. Regarding this portion of the map, there are quite a few other cities on here too. :eek: they must be considered mythical, because they were real and we aren't suppose to know about it.

OrteliusWorldMap1570_1.jpg
 

ShemTov

Member
Messages
13
Likes
25
#8
When i was in university we did a field camp on a piece of property that had been in the same family since the American Revolution and on it we found some amazing things [the owners wanted us to find the original homestead]. I have never heard anything more about it. One thing we found was a wooden stockade wall and many round house platforms.

It was here
Google Maps

I have heard of Norumbega since those days and often wondered if it was there.

bye
 
Last edited:

BStankman

Well-known member
Messages
377
Likes
1,503
#9

The birds check out. There are red birds called flamingos in Florida, and Penguins near the Greenland island.

flamingo.jpg penguin.jpg

So David Ingram is not just a drunken sailor. But he is probably responsible for a syphilis outbreak on the east coast in 1568.

The California island map 1650 places Norubegua north of New Amsterdam.

1542014985574.png

17782.jpg

Amerique Septentrionale . . . 1650

Not saying the names couldn't change in 100 years. But the Potomac is present in 1650.

1542015566187.png

I really don't know what to think right now, except Norumbega seems to be a real city. Regarding this portion of the map, there are quite a few other cities on here too. :eek: they must be considered mythical, because they were real and we aren't suppose to know about it.
Didn't you know? Florida, Bermuda and Chicago (Chilaga) ... all mythical.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,798
Likes
8,266
#10
Norumbega was a name of a region with what looks like City of Bega / Norumbega City for a capitol. Then again, the name of the city in the region of Norumbega could have been different, and Mr. Ingram just called it that way.

Geographical description of how to get to the city of Bega rules Penobscot Bay out. Plus other additional details which are not in this thread, for I'm working on part 2. This OP is too long.
You just reminded me of Michael Tsarion's "The Irish Origins of Civilization". Are you familiar with his work? And where do you find all this stuff for your subjects? Im blown away..
Thanks for yet another fascinating tale.
I just pick a name on some old map and google:)

Nope, never heard of this Michael Tsarion.
 

anotherlayer

Well-known member
Messages
371
Likes
1,201
#11
I find a ton of articles from the 1880-90s that keep pushing Professor Horsford's view that Norumbega is the City of Waltham, MA. He's the guy that paid for the Norse Tower in dedication to his discovery.

"This is the old stronghold the professor located at the place where Stony Brook runs into the Charles river, in the city of Waltham.":

Screen Shot 2018-11-12 at 3.14.45 PM.png

Nice article from the NYT, 1899. Here the author concludes Norumbega includes everything from Maine down to Virginia.

nyt_norumbega.jpg

However, my trusty Buffalonian paper from 1889 has an article that also begs to differ, stating it's actually off the Hudson.

Screen Shot 2018-11-12 at 3.13.53 PM.png

Here is the earliest Newspaper article so far, though I'm still searching, January of 1877:

1877_norumbega.jpg

Interesting snippet from A History of Geographical Discovery: In the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries:

Ancient_City_Norumbega_5.jpg

And finally, this is a fascinating read. There is too much to pull and post, but it won't take long to read through it and it's a great 101 for Norumbega:

Narrative and Critical History of America: English explorations and Settlements in North America, 1497-1689.
 
Last edited:

mythstifieD

Well-known member
Messages
176
Likes
561
#13
Nordic Heritage of New World Discovery: a Chronology by Gunnar Thompson

I'm starting to wonder if there might be some truth to this timeline in the link above...

6000 BC Small groups of maritime hunters traveled across the North Atlantic in skin boats and dugout canoes following migratory birds and mammals. They are known as the "Marine Archaic culture" in Scandinavian pre-history and as the "Red-Paint People" in New England archeology.
550 AD Jordane's History of The Goths reports Swedish-Germanic voyages to isles in the Western Sea.
770 Pope Gregory IV refers to the forested isle of "Greenland" (i.e., North America) in the far west.
800 Climatic Optimum
Unusually warm weather in the northern latitudes results in excellent growing seasons on farms and rapidly expanding populations in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. Young Vikings and traders sail to the Black Sea, the Mediterranean, and to isles in the far west (North America).
865 Viking settlements in Iceland
981 Eric the Red's colony established on the Arctic Isle of Greenlandwhich is "greener" than usual due to a warmer climate shift of the 10th cent.
996 Icelander Bjarny Herjolfsson sights unknown isles southwest of Greenland.
1001 Leif Ericson sails from Greenland to mainland near the Gulf of St. Lawrence. He calls the region "Vinland" due to abundant grapes. (16th cent. explorers Cartier, Champlain, & Verrazano all reported wine grapes in New England.)
1004 Leif's brother Thorvald and company attempt a commercial venture in Vinland. They withdraw after a battle with Skraelings (i.e., natives).
1010 Thorfin Karlsefni's company of 160 Greenlanders establish camp in Vinland and explore the continent from Christian's Bay (later Hudson Bay) to Florida. After two years, they withdraw following a skirmish with Skraelings. Nevertheless, their venture is a commercial success.
1050 A runestone in Honen , Norway, honors mariners lost at sea on a voyage from Vinland to the Arctic hunting grounds.
1053 Vinland is mentioned as part of the diocese of Bishop Jon of Ireland.
1067 Historian Adam of Bremen reports that Nordic Prince Harold of the Northmen "explored the northern ocean to the boundaries of the earth."
1073 Historian Adam of Bremen reports that the Wineland colony is noted for its wines. (Apparently, some Nordic settlers managed to get along with the natives by this time.)
c.1100 A tapestry from Skog, Sweden, features a farmstead of turkeysthe distinctive New World game bird.
1112 Pope Paschal II appoints Erik Gnupsson bishop of Greenland and adjacent regions (i.e., Vinland).
1117 Bishop Gnupsson visits "Vinilanda"according to text on the 1440 Yale Vinland Map.
1120 French historian Odericus Vitalis refers to "Wineland" in his Historia Ecclesiastica.
1121 Icelandic historian Are Frode ("The Learned") reports Bishop Gnupsson's 2nd voyage to the western colony of Wineland.
1130 Are Frode mentions "Vinland" four times in the Islendingabok.
1154 Arab geographer Al-Idrisi shows Greenland to the far north on his world map.
1200 The Far North
As Nordic mariners depended on the compass, the "far north" meant lands near the north magnetic pole of Christian's (Hudson) Bay.
1245 The Kristni Saga is an Icelandic record of a Norse tale about "Lucky" Leif Ericson's discovery of Wineland. He traveled in company with his German uncle and two Swedish couriers.
1250 The Heimskringla Saga is another version of Leif Ericson's Wineland voyage. The Eyrbygga Saga tells of Nordic trade and battles with Native Americansthe Skraelings.
1258 The New Land
Rolf of Iceland reports discovery of a New Land called "Nyaland" in the western continent. (This is entered in Kongfriget Norges Historie. Are Frode and Bishop Einarsson both noted that the direction to Nyaland from Iceland was southwest, i.e., toward Newfoundland or Nova Scotia.)
1260 Eric The Red's Saga gives a detailed account of voyages to Wineland based on old folk tales.
c.1260 King Haakon IV Haakonson of Norway-Sweden sailed "to Greenland and beyond." So reports historian Olas Magnus. A 15th-cent. Icelandic songwriter, Sturle Tordsson, praised Haakon for increasing Nordic possessions in the far north as far as the "Leading Star"Polaris.
1261 Haakon IV claims sovereignty over all the lands from the Baltic Sea to the north (magnetic) pole including "landanu" or The New Land.
1267 Taxes in Natura
A letter from the archbishop of Nidros to the pope informs his Eminence that the overseas realm is so large that it will take 5 years to collect the taxes. Payments are in the form of marine products and animal hides (furs)most of which come from North American mammals such as beavers, foxes, and black bears. Thus, thriving Norse colonies are indicated for the East Coast region of North America.
1285 The Icelandic Annals identify Adalbrand and Thorvald as two priests who found "new lands" to the west of Iceland.
1289 Landa-Rolf sails to the New Land for King Eric.
1330 English (Nordic) friar Nicholas of Lynn begins mapping the North Atlantic under the aegis of the King of Norway-Sweden.
1346 Bubonic plague reaches Iceland ahead of the epidemic in England suggesting spread of the disease along the route of the North Atlantic fur trade from America.
1347 Icelandic Annals report the arrival of a Norse ship bearing a load of lumber from Markland (i.e., Newfoundland). Transport of lumber along this route of the Gulf Stream current is so well known that it is indicated on the Hans Resen map of 1605.
1348 Bubonic Plague in Norway
Epidemics and cold weather devastate Nordic territories. English, Portuguese, and Danish nations recover more quickly and soon claim the old Nordic colonies of the far northwest Atlantic (i.e., the New Land of America).
1350 A Spanish Franciscan's Book of Knowledge reports that an Irish colony (Ibernia) situated on a forested isle in the far-western Atlantic is under Norse sovereignty. (This refers to Great Ireland located in the region of Nova Scotia.)
c.1350 The Flateyjarbok (Gronlendinga Saga) describes Lucky Leif's 11th-cent. discovery of Wineland.
c.1350 A Faroese fairy tale places Vinland in the far west across the Atlantic Ocean.
c.1350 Maps by English geographer Ranulf Higden show that "Wineland" is situated to the far north. Copies of Higden's geography, Polychronicon, were available throughout Europe.
c.1350 The Little Ice Age
Cooler climatic conditions in northern areas and shorter growing seasons drive people south.
1350 Inhabitants of the Arctic Greenland apparently left Vestribygda (the Western Settlement) and settled in Vinland (America) according to Bishop Ivar Bardarson.
c.1350 Vinland The Good
Icelandic Abbot Nikulas Bergsson describes "Vinland hit Gode" as a land south of the Arctic isle of Greenland whereas earlier geographers had it near the North Pole. (See 1351.)
1351 Medici Marine Atlas of Florence, Italy, shows Greenland for the first time in its correct geo-graphical position northwest of England. This reflects accurate scientific surveys of the far north by such explorers as friar Nicholas.
1355 King Magnus Eiriksson dispatches a search party under Paul Knutsson to ascertain the fate of immigrants from the Western Settlement of Greenland.
c.1360 A travelog by friar Nicholas, the Inventio Fortunatae, reports abandoned European settlements in the western mainland (America).
1360 Priests from "Dusky Norway" (North America) visit the king in Bergen.
1362 Kensington Runestone records the tragedy of a band of Vinland explorers who followed the Nelson River from Christian Bay into Minnesota.
1363 King Haakon Magnusson battles with Hanseatic Pirates in seas near Greenland.
1366 King Peter of Cyprus writes that the Norse realm overseas is so large that it takes 3 years to collect taxes and return to Bergen.
1380 Venetian explorer Nicolo Zeno reports pirates fighting the Norse king in isles of the "far north." These islands near the Gulf of St. Lawrence were later called by such names as the "Icelandic Isles," "Frisland," and eventually "Newfoundland."
1380 Danish Domination of Atlantic Isles
A map by the Dane, Claudius Clavus, in 1424 refers to the former Norse possessions collectively as "Gronlandia Provincia." Later Danish maps indicate that this "Greenland Province" extended all the way to Christian's (Hudson) Bay.
1385 An English rhyme places "Veneland" (or Vinland) to the far north beside Greenland and Frisland.
c.1400 A runestone from Spirit Pond, Maine, tells of a Vendal or Hanseatic merchant ship in Vinland.
1414 Venetian cosmographer Albertin DeVirga notes the Nordic continental province "Norveca Europa" to the northwest of Norway (probably an archaic reference to Greenland Province or N. America).
1427 The Dane Claudius Clavus reports in his Nancy Ms. that an explorer (friar Nicholas?) has located the North Pole of the Western Hemisphere at 66° (the location of the north magnetic pole).
1427 French priest, Guillaume de Filastre, argues that "Greenland" (i.e., North America) must be south of Iceland due to the reported temperate climate.
1436 Stockfish Land
Maps by the Portuguese cartographer Andrea Bianco identify an isle northwest of Norway as the source of cod. This land is later claimed by Portugal as the isle of "Bacallaos" (i.e., New-foundland). This isle is indicated as part of the Danish province of "Gronlandia" on the Jacob Ziegler map of 1532.
1440 Swiss Franciscan's map shows "Vinilanda" west of Europe.
1450 Pope Nicholas V. refers to "the forests of Gronolonde." This is probably a reference to the greater Danish Greenland Province (i.e., North America). The Arctic isle didn't have forests.
1450 Icelandic Isles & Codfish
The Catalan Atlas shows a group of isles situated northwest of Iceland called the "Icelands." Subsequent maps show these isles migrating to the position of Newfoundland. They have the same names as the codfish isles mentioned by Nicolo Zeno circa 1380. English and Basque fishermen sail to these isles often.
1464 Portuguese explorer Jao Vas Corte-Real sails to Labrador & Newfoundland. His name appears on Portuguese maps of the region in 1534.
1473 In the service of a Danish king, Norse captains Didrik Pining and Hans Pothorst sail with a Luso-Norwegian expedition to isles in the northwestern Atlanticthat is, to Labrador & Newfoundland.
1475 German (Hanse) Lubeck map shows "Wineland" as a European colony of the far northwest.
1476 King Christian I of Denmark sends the Pole Johannes Scolvus (Skolp) with a joint Luso-Danish fleet to explore the northwestern isles. A map by Gemma Frisus in 1537 indicates that Scolvus traveled as far as Grocland (Labrador).
1477 Cristobol Colon (Columbus) travels 100 leagues beyond Ultra Tile to a land that has 25-foot tides (probably Nova Scotia). Historian J.R. Tornoe believes Colon accompanied Scolvus in 1476.
1480 Map by Hans Rust of Augsburg shows "Vinland" as an European colony to the far northwest. Thousands of copies of this map were printed assuring that most European merchants were aware of the existence of the old Nordic colony.
1484 Portuguese Atlantic Domination
A papal bull designates Portugal as owner of all Atlantic isles by virtue of its new campaign of exploration and evangelism. Portuguese mariners sail often to old Norse territories where they report "white" natives in Stock Fish Land (i.e., Newfoundland). Gaspar Corte-Real took many white settlers from this region as slaves in 1500 and shipped them back to Portugal.
1486 Portuguese captain Fernao Dulmo and German cosmographer Martin Behaim chart the isles of "Stockfish Land," i.e., Newfoundland.
1486 Lubeck manuscript mentions "Vinlandia" as mainland reaching as far as Livonia (Russia).
1492 Upon the resignation of Jacob Blaa, Bishop of Gardar, Greenland, Pope Innocent III appoints Mathias Knutsson to head the northern diocese.
1493 In the Treaty of Tordesillas, Spain recognizes Portugal's sovereignty over Atlantic isles 370 leagues west of the Canary Isles. This region is thought to include Greenland, Labrador, New-foundland and Brazil. King John II of Portugal promptly dispatches ships to harvest timber, slaves, and stockfish from the northern isles.
1497 Genoese navigator, John Cabot, sailing for the English finds the Norse "New Land" in the region of the Gulf of St. Lawrence. His report that he "found New Land" is eventually interpreted as "Newfoundland." But most maps call the mainland simply "Terra Nova" or New Land.
1520 Pope Leo X appoints a new bishop, Erik Valkendorf, to Greenland. However, the Danish bishop's mission was aborted when the Protestant Reformation swept through Scandinavia.
1524 Norumbega
Giovanni Verrazano, sailing for the king of France, reports the location of a province called "Norumbega" along the East Coast of North America. Later explorers report that Norumbega is a city along a great river where Europeans and natives trade goods for furs. The name might derive from Norbegia, Nuremberg, Northumbria or some other combination of European names designating Old World mercantile centers.
1578 Frederick II of Denmark sends an expedition under Magnus Henningsen to explore former Danish territories in the northwest.
1626 Norse frontiersman Cornelius Sand negotiates the Dutch purchase of Manhattan from native Mohawks using Old Norse words that had become part of the Algonkian language.
c.1650 The Danes send several expeditions to the western Atlantic piloted by the English navigator James Hall. A map from this era designates the region of "Groenland" as all the isles north of Christian Strait (i.e., Hudson Strait). Central Canada is called "New Denmark" on this map.
1659 Peter Heylyn's Cosmography mentions that the ancient Frisland colony of the far north (i.e., Newfoundland) was under the aegis of the Crown of Norway.
1721 Danish missionary Hans Egede re-establishes the Danish claim to the Arctic Isle of Greenland. However, the former Norse territories of Wine-land and Norumbega were by this time under English and French colonial administration.
Modern Era Research
1880 Eben Norton Horsford excavates Nordic ruins at Watertown, Massachusetts. He identifies the region as the site of the Nordic Vinland colony.
1892 Magnus Anderson & crew sail a replica of a Viking longboat from Bergen to Rhode Island in 28 daysproving the ability of Nordic mariners to sail to America in ancient times.
1898 Swedish immigrant farmer Olof Ohlman finds a Norse Runestone near Kensington, Minnesota. Some historians brand the artifact a "hoax," but subsequent examination has verified that the ancient writing dates to the 14th century.
1940 Hjalmar Holand documents the case supporting validity of the Kensington Runestone.
1948 Arlington Mallery excavates Nordic iron furnaces in pre-Colonial ruins along the St. Lawrence and Ohio rivers. He locates remains of Nordic habitation sites along the isles of Newfoundland.
1952 Frederick Pohl excavates Nordic ruins near Cape Cod, Massachusetts.
1964 Anne and Helge Ingstad excavate Nordic ruins at L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland.
1965 J.K.R. Tornoe documents the Arctic voyage of Columbus in 1477.
1965 Yale University reports donation of a "Vinland Map" dating to 1440. Although once denounced as a "hoax," proton beam analysis verifies that it is very similar in composition to the authentic 15th-century Gutenberg Bible. It is authentic.
1970 Thor Heyerdahl sails replica of Egyptian boat, the Ra II from Morocco to Barbados proving that it was possible for Old World voyagers to reach the New World before Columbus.
1972 Canadian archeologist Thomas Lee excavates numerous Nordic longhouses along the shores of Ungava Bay, Canada.
1991 Norwegian researcher Kare Pritz identifies the New World on ancient Portuguese maps that predate Columbus.
1994 American scholars Robert Hall, Richard Nielsen, and Rolf Nilsestuen complete their linguistic analysis of the Kensington Runestone. Their exhaustive study proves that all of the so-called "suspected modern runes" on the artifact were actually were used during the 14th century.
1994 Gunnar Thompson finds DeVirga's map of 1414 showing Norse overseas province of "Norveca"i.e., North America from Greenland to Florida. He identifies scores of "Vinland maps" that predate the Columbus voyage proving that Vinland was a well-known feature of European geography at the time of Columbus.
1997 Evanston scholar W.R. Anderson compiles an encyclopedia of Nordic artifacts and maps of the New World before the Columbus voyage. He proposes the erection of a giant statue of Lief Ericson over the Chicago river to commemorate Nordic exploration of the New World.
PS, in particular:
1524 Norumbega
Giovanni Verrazano, sailing for the king of France, reports the location of a province called "Norumbega" along the East Coast of North America. Later explorers report that Norumbega is a city along a great river where Europeans and natives trade goods for furs. The name might derive from Norbegia, Nuremberg, Northumbria or some other combination of European names designating Old World mercantile centers.
Norumbega, or Nurembega, is a legendary settlement in northeastern North America which appeared on many early maps from the 1500s until American colonization. The word “Norumbega” was originally spelled Oranbega in Giovanni da Verrazzano’s 1529 map of America, and the word is believed to derive from one of the Algonquian languages spoken in New England. It may mean “quiet place between the rapids” or “quiet stretch of water”.
0_ukUBrssvXbUAfA8Q.jpeg


Ok... We have a problem here! This website claims this map is from 1529? I couldn't help but notice the name "CANADA" on it...

The nameCanada” likely comes from the Huron-Iroquois word “kanata,” meaning “village” or “settlement.” In 1535, two Aboriginal youths told French explorer Jacques Cartier about the route to kanata; they were actually referring to the village of Stadacona, the site of the present-day City of Québec.
Origin of the name "Canada" - Canada.ca

If this map truly is from 1529 we have a huge chronology issue!!!
 
Last edited:

Glumlit

Well-known member
Messages
73
Likes
280
#14
When i was in university we did a field camp on a piece of property that had been in the same family since the American Revolution and on it we found some amazing things [the owners wanted us to find the original homestead]. I have never heard anything more about it. One thing we found was a wooden stockade wall and many round house platforms.

It was here
Google Maps

I have heard of Norumbega since those days and often wondered if it was there.

bye
There was apparently some violence just north of there before descriptions of Norumbega were made
 

ShemTov

Member
Messages
13
Likes
25
#15
Last edited:

GroundhogLfe

Well-known member
Messages
67
Likes
313
#18
People must consider that regarding the Norse / "Vikings" / Norman French you must take in to account that more or less they might've been just one and the same people. Norman just means man from the north. For some invasions to medieval England I think it's silly to say that these Vikings just rivaled each other when taking simultaneous offensive from separate locations there, perhaps they had conflicts but in the large scale you tend to work together when you have a common background and share an enemy.

From there you also have the information of the land overseas from the "Viking" era already that could've carried on to the French at ease.

So if the Vikings have had legends of living in Norumbega it could've at ease been translated to a French colony at a later time. And the name could actually just been ***berg instead of bega as berg means a hill in at least modern Swedish language and there we have the "Nor" yet again for crediting it to north. I mean the city pretty much is located in the area of "New France" on the old maps.

I don't know the area, but are there any hills there close to Washington? [edit] -> Of course, the Capitol hill.

[Tying things up]

I do not mean to derail this, but there is so much background in this speculation to tie things up to a larger picture that I just must write it down here. If anyone finds something out of this, then elaborate this perhaps in other threads as we have few quite a fitting one for them.

If the Norman/French had a head start to the NA, then they might've wanted to have kept it as a secret as long as possible and it could explain some of the older looking European buildings out of place in some of the cities as seen on other threads. Furthermore this would elaborate the backgrounds of the American revolution more likely to be something of a signed peace treaty for creating a new country from the ashes of war, we would know that this new country would rapidly start to expand to the west in the 19th century and it's pretty much in a haze. The same wars prior to the "revolution" would however continue in Europe after the "French revolution" and Napoleon not going with the plans. So soon after and there would be some effects of it to be seen in the NA as well in 1812 with British invasion. We'd have a real solid background for a civil war to happen in 1860's and why Russia wanted to help the North, because of what happened 50 before.

We can create overall factions from known alliances: Banks / Vatican / England / Turks / Tartaria / US Southern states vs French / Russia / US Northern states

We know that the Turks / Vatican / Banks have supported in some atrocities. But we do not know the origins of all of this so must reserve on that until more of the backgrounds are known, but I know the Armenians for example surely were not oppressing anyone but in their spirit? We also know that the right side factions eventually lost the wars with European French becoming a puppet after Napoleon and join the left alliance, Russia falling to Bolshevik revolution supported by the banks, at the same time there was a large "Pan-Turanian movement going on" and then the US as a whole submitting to the banks and joining the left alliance as well. People of Germany were destroyed in WW2 and their country was filled with Turks and now immigrants. There we have the whole world vs Russia scenario of the leftist media we have today unless it's just an act. We can also see this leftern most alliance pretty much crumbling as the people are rising out of the grip of fear.

The Scandinavian/French grip on NA surely was not innocent either, but of invasive nature at the beginning at least. And if the Tartarians were connected to the Natives then it makes sense. But it's really hard to figure out from this who stroke who first and where. But perhaps history is most easily figured out the inconsistencies and building up a logical narrative that makes sense to the modern world dating back from here to backwards.

Personal opinion: I also find it hard to believe that the 16th to 19th century Tartarians or even prior had anything to do with the original 'Griffin empire' but perhaps as something of a remnance or a stolen identity.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,798
Likes
8,266
#19
I think when we grant a head start to the New World, to no matter who, we deny the possibility of the Americas being known, and populated for a long time, just like any other place on Earth.

In my opinion, the Americas were no different from any other place on Earth. It was well known and populated, where people quite possibly were speaking multiple languages, to include French and what not. Hence all this Louisina area. We have all those Regnums on the old maps, which came from somewhere, yet considered to be totally made up.

Whatever catastrophes, or wars took place... The Americas got cut off for the reasons which were most likely transportation/technology related. None of us can cross the Atlantic, or Pacific in a small boat. Unless you are Fyodor Konyukhov, of course.

Just look at the 16th century maps of the Americas. They were mapped somehow, and I do not believe it was possible without prior maps being in existence.

So yup, I do think that Americas were no stranger to the World community.
 

Similar threads

Top