Post-cataclyscmic waste management misatributed to medieval times

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
255
Likes
1,320
#1

I want to expand on the thoughts in the above video.

karlstejn-castle.jpg

Medieval castles have a surprising lack of any kind of infrastructure we associate with basic human needs, especially hygine. No toilets, no running water, nothing. Indoor plumbing was only added later, according to historians, so even washing hands was impossible, which supposedly led to countless epidemics, not even speaking about the inconveniences all of this would have caused the people living in such a castle.

In the official history, society decayed from the Roman times on, and everything became worse, including hygiene. So no toilets in the middle ages.

Here's a common description:
Toilets in today's sense were not known in the 15th century - or rather no longer. In Roman times, toilets in private toilets or public toilets with flushing were still used. In the Middle Ages there was nothing left of these hygienic achievements: Those who had to relieve themselves did so in the next bush, behind the house or in a chamber pot, which was tilted out of the window at the next opportunity.
The walls of the castle and palace were lined with garderobes: fresh air lumps high above the ground, in which the faeces finally rotted after a short free flight. And with the nobility it was common practice until the 18th century to relieve oneself in the middle of the room - so that the pile would be removed by the servants.

In those supposedly medieval castles, just like in the one above, you can find something called Garderobe - Wikipedia
The term is also used to refer to a medieval or Renaissance toilet or a close stool. In a medieval castle, a garderobe was usually a simple hole discharging to the outside into a cesspit (akin to a pit latrine) or the moat (like a fish pond toilet), depending on the structure of the building. Such toilets were often placed inside a small chamber, leading by association to the use of the term garderobe to describe the rooms. Many can still be seen in Norman and medieval castles and fortifications, for example at Bürresheim Castle in Germany, where three garderobes are still visible. They became obsolete with the introduction of indoor plumbing.
A description of the garderobe at Donegal Castle indicates that while it was in use, it was believed that ammonia would protect visitors' coats and cloaks.
Garderobe - Wikipedia

It usually looks something like this

800px-Wimpfen-roter-turm-aborterker.JPG
serveimage.jpg

Often those outdoor toilets were added to the city wall to make it easier to control the hygiene within the city. Surprisingly it looks like most of them are made of entirely different material than the original castle wall, suggesting that they are not part of the original castle design. When you look through images of those castle toilets the pattern becomes obvious. It seems that no castle had those things built into it originally.

serveimage1.jpg

Doesn't those bricks look more like 19th century than 15th century middle ages?

Below is an interesting painting from 1876, which shows the outdoor toilets in use. I suggest that this kind of low level infrastructure wasn't in use until the 19th Century. According to historians we lived in such a way for more than 1000 years. Nope, only two or three generations maybe, in the 19th Century. It's not possible to survive as a society if you don't care about sanitation for 500-100 years. Any society with basic intelligence would push for a solution as quickly as possible. A society without sanitation will not create people like Vivaldi and other Renaissance geniuses.

I just can't believe that thousands and thousands of castles were built with extraordinary level of detail, excellent quality of architectural design, but no one thought about basic things. That doesn't make any sense. As a society you can't even manage hundreds of thousands of workers without having decent sanitation.

I think just like outlined by Conspiracy-R-US all changes related to the Great Stink, lack of hygine, usually associated with medieval times, happened only in the 19th Century, and was later misattributed into the distant middle ages, without any evidence at all.

We are looking at a drastic change into how society works, and how do people react after a drastic change? They create short-term solutions that work more or less, before thinking about applying more structural solutions. So people added these outdoor toilets to city walls, castles and buildings, which led to some kind of health crisis culminating in events like the Great Stink of London. It is no coincidence that the Great Stink only became a problem in 1850. So for 1000 years business as usual and suddenly everything breaks down? No, the entire primitive sanitation infrastructure did not exist prior to 1700 or 1800.

kufferhaeuser1024.jpg

But this leads to the question why not only Versailles, St. Petersburg, London, but also all administrative buildings of the most powerful people of that time (castles) did not include infrastructure for sanitation and human waste. I haven't found an answer, but this newearth video might be relevant.

Just like Versailles, looking at all those medieval castles, it looks to me that whoever lived inside, either wasn't human, or had technology thad made sanitation and eating unnecessary. Were the medieval castles abandoned by their original owners, just like Versailles, and those who moved in later made the best out of the situation?

Those 13th-16th Century castles were created for ruling over a large territory, and the people who lived inside where the most powerful and rich people back then. The image we have of castles isn't complete. The original castles were painted beutifully, but most of the plaster is gone, probably after some kind of cataclysmic event, so when people think about castles, they usually think about castle ruins. During the 18th or 19th Century it seems some families tried to repair some of the damage, and continued to live in such castles, and I think only after the cataclysm due to the damage most castles became associated with bad air quality, crypts, darkness, moisture, etc. Originally they might have been quite decent to live in.

Still the question should be asked why the most epic buildings of the past that we can wittness around us were never planned to be inhabited by normal humans with sanitation needs.

Ideas:

- Somewhere between 1700 and 1800 an event of epic proportions destroyed a high technology civilization that had primitive things like sanitation figured out on a higher level, afterwards the new rulers moved into the structural remains of that past society and remodeled the buildings
- The buildings were home to the ruling elite, which wasn't human, and thus didn't produce any waste. Around 1700 together with a global cataclysm they abruptly disappear from the planet, and leave behind only myths (like Dracula, vampires, or other parasitic rulers in dark castles)
- Since we are talking about both cities and administrative buildings being affected by this lack of infrastructure, a sudden disappearance of technology or even complete change in human biological make up sounds possible to me.
- I'm not entirely sure all of this is related to the 1700 catastrophe that gave rise to the post-renaissance paintings of destroyed Rome, or an event at the beginning of 1800.

What other possibilities do exist?
 
Last edited:

Glumlit

Well-known member
Messages
73
Likes
280
#3
I readily assume that whoever built all this stone stuff with no toilets were pagans, or in some way vastly more connected to the Earth than we are.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had fuckloads of plants within these buildings (dwellings?). Maybe they ate the plants, maybe there were other purposes. But it only makes sense to me that they cherished and utilized plant life. After all, these seem to be the people from whom we've gained the knowledge of which plants are edible/medicinal.

If I ever get a computer, I'm gonna put together a post on the confusing and contradicting information I've found on the alleged histories of human interaction with certain edible and medicinal plants.

But my gut tells me that those people took shits. And I like to think that they knew so well what they were doing on this Earth, they probably had a much more perfect diet than we do. So much so that seedlings happily sprang from their turds left and right on a daily basis. Hell, if that were the case they could've given boxes of their own shit as gifts

At least that's the world I wanna see.
 

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,798
Likes
8,266
#4
For me it’s a puzzle we won’t be able ro crack if we try to do so based on our acquired understanding of technology. There had to be something serving those purposes. We either do not recognize it (may be because they were removed), or creatures who occupied those structures were genetically different. Just my thoughts.
 
OP
OP
dreamtime

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
255
Likes
1,320
#5
I agree, lost technology is the most likely scenario here. But surprisingly no remains of that technology is left. Since it doesn't seem to be baked into the architecture, it had to be quite a mobile solution.

Although the entire thing is a mystery to me, as I haven't found a clue for any of the possible explanations...
 
Last edited:

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
395
Likes
1,551
#7
Philipp Druzhinin calls it the gas empire.

Maybe they used the waste to produce methane in silos like the the pantheon .

I am totally stymied as to what their toilet habits/routine was. But I love this, the thoughts that The Pantheon could have been a methane silo. And you know what! it would take care of the crap problem and produce energy. Kills 2 birds with one stone more or less.

The Power Of Poop Vs. The Might Of Methane

I'm just laughing to myself so much right now, because we have so many tourists oohing and aahing over The Parthenon and maybe it was originally used to process human waste. :ROFLMAO:
 
Last edited:

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,798
Likes
8,266
#8
To collect methane they would need some sort of a container. Have we seen anything in the old photographs depicting anything resembling those?

Additionally, sounds like we should start paying attention to interiors of those Victorian rooms.

Is there even such a thing as a Victorian bathroom?

May be it could look something like this

toilet-history.jpg

If that’s a methane gas operated street lamp installed as a part of this public toilet... we could be onto something here.

all images are 1875-ish Paris
public_bathroom_19th_century_1.jpg

public_bathroom_19th_century_3.jpg public_bathroom_19th_century_4.jpg public_bathroom_19th_century_5.jpg
 

BStankman

Well-known member
Messages
377
Likes
1,503
#9
I am totally stymied as to what their toilet habits/routine was. But I love this, the thoughts that The Pantheon could have been a methane silo. And you know what! it would take care of the crap problem and produce energy. Kills 2 birds with one stone more or less.

The Power Of Poop Vs. The Might Of Methane

I'm just laughing to myself so much right now, because we have so many tourists oohing and aahing over The Parthenon and maybe it was originally used to process human waste. :ROFLMAO:
I know, right?
The biggest concrete dome in the world is a public works building for :poop:

In the olden days, even the sewage treatment plant was ornate.
Bronze removed by pope Urban could have been piping and gas release valves.
Explains how a concrete structure catches fire.

Pan - Greek - all
Teon
-Greek - to drag, draw, pull or to bring, lead, put
Latin translation dūcere
If that’s a methane gas operated street lamp installed as a part of this public toilet... we could be onto something here.
all images are 1875-ish Paris
Adds another meaning to the "illuminated ones."
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
dreamtime

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
255
Likes
1,320
#10
hmm...


In the 1890s, Joseph Edmund Webb of Birmingham invented and patented a device called the “sewer gas destructor lamp” to deal with the problem of putrid sewer gases. These lamps looked and behaved like ordinary gas lamps that were once a common feature on streets around the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe as well. Webb’s idea was to vent methane gas up and out of the sewer mains through the lamp post to the burner at the top where it would be consumed by the flames. Webb expected the lamps to be fueled entirely by sewer gas effectively turning a nuisance into functional street lights.
However, it was soon realized that the system didn’t work as expected —there was not enough methane to power the lights. The flame would die quickly and subsequent unburned methane release would create a nauseous condition in the area. Webb quickly modified his design so that the lamps burned town gas like ordinary gas lamps did, but they were still connected to the sewers below. The heat generated by the lamp head created an up draught which pulled gases from the sewer through lamp column to the 370 degree centigrade flame, where it burned together with the town gas. A single lamp was said to be capable of venting up to three quarters of a mile of sewer. The gas lamps not only removed methane but they also helped to sanitize the sewer air by burning dangerous microbes.
The sewer gas lamp turned out to be so effective that they were installed all around the UK in towns and cities including London, Sheffield, Winchester, Durham, Whitley Bay, Monkseaton and Blyth, Northumberland. The lamps remained lit all round the clock. The city of Sheffield, being a hilly area was more prone to gas pockets, and so had the highest number of sewer gas destructor lamps. They still have many of these lamps and some of them are still functioning.
London’s last remaining sewer gas destructor lamp on Carting Lane was knocked off by a reversing lorry some years ago. It is now replaced by a replica. Although an imitation, the lamp has earned Carting Lane the nickname of ‘Farting Lane’.
Sewer lamps became obsolete with the change in plumbing practice. Today, sewage gas is vented out above the roofs through the buildings’ plumbing system.

The Sewer Gas Destructor Lamps of England | Amusing Planet

sewerlamp.png wp1e8f8dc3_1a.png


Unfortunately all the records of the company were lost in a fire in 1925, so no definitive list exists of locations
In 1907 the company claimed that its lamps were ventilating 30,000 miles of sewer; however the market was ultimately limited, and was destroyed by changes in the Public Health Act (and the death of the 'Miasma' theory) which required building drainage systems to be individually vented at roof level by a 'ventilated stack', thus providing widely distributed sewer ventilation and removing the necessity to individually ventilate specific trouble spots. In addition, the rise of electric street lighting saw the replacement of gas lamps generally. By 1911 the company had diversified into manufacturing the 'Galvo Electryne' fire extinguisher, filled with carbon tetrachloride, and progressively this became their main product. Indeed the Webb Lamp Company's name is forever preserved in a landmark legal case which is still quoted as Chancery case law when they were sued by the American Pyrene Co (who made a similar extinguisher) in 1920 for patent infringement during WWI. They claimed as government contractors they were exempt from patent law.
History of Webb Lamp Co

New street light runs on dog waste

Inventor Develops System That Powers a Street Light With 10 Bags of Dog Poo for 2 Hours

India is an early adopter of poo power. Small household biodigesters that extract gas from cow manure is common in rural areas. This idea is being opened to a larger scale to include human waste as part of a major project that hopes to end open defecation in the country by 2019. The Social Enterprise group Sanitation and Health Rights in India (SHRI) builds toilet blocks for free inside communities. The collected sewage from the toilets is composted in a biodigester to produce methane. The methane then powers a groundwater pump, the collected water is filtered and made available to the community at a minimal cost that covers some of the initial investment of the toilet blocks. Next time you go to poo think of the potential your poop is carrying.
This doctoral student is building public toilets in India that also provide clean drinking water

Sandra Sassow, CEO and cofounder of SEaB, warns that some facilities that turn biomass, including excrement, into energy may not be as green as they appear, if, for example, they use fuel to transport waste a long way before it is turned into an energy source. Right now, waste is collected, trucked, moved and processed, often ending up in landfill at worst or having some energy extracted from it at best, says Sassow. “We want to disrupt that completely to incorporate decentralised, distributed, on-site appliances into farms and buildings around the world. A lot of things have been tried, but it’s a case of finding a technology that produces an energy benefit over the full life cycle, not just an apparent energy benefit.”
From stools to fuels: the street lamp that runs on dog do

Seems the only working solution would be a mobile, decentralized system so that energy expenditure is minimized, and energy production optimized. So every home would have their own poo neutralisation tech.

UK's first 'poo bus' hits the road

It’s not a load of crap: turn your urine and faeces into treasure | Zoe Cormier

"Whatever way we choose to upcycle our waste, one thing is clear: the absolute stupidest thing we could do with our excrement is to use clean water to flush it away, and then spend a fortune to treat it all over again."

SEAB Energy Homepage:

Why are you still paying for someone to move your waste? With Flexibuster™ you can convert your own waste into clean energy and high quality fertiliser

Waste is bad for the environment. Fossil fuels are not sustainable. Our technology turns that waste problem into free, clean energy
 
Last edited:

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
395
Likes
1,551
#11
“Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Jr

Everything always revolves around greed doesn't it. We can't have things that don't generate loads of $$$ for somebody. What a world it would be if we had only solar power, wind farms and recycled our waste into energy.

I honestly think we are on to something here.

@dreamtime, that's good call, strangely it seems like it was just an after thought, how crazy.

"Often those outdoor toilets were added to the city wall to make it easier to control the hygiene within the city. Surprisingly it looks like most of them are made of entirely different material than the original castle wall, suggesting that they are not part of the original castle design. When you look through images of those castle toilets the pattern becomes obvious. It seems that no castle had those things built into it originally. "

Well the Minoans certainly had their shit together. This is just nuts, how we could go from this kind of sewer system to eventually The Great Stink.
Minoan Sewer system
The Minoans were the first civilization to use underground clay pipes for sanitation and water supply. The Romans would develop these sophisticated comforts - but not for 1500 years.


The Queen's Room at Knossos, also called the Queen's Bathroom

Knossos had a well organized water system for bringing in clean water, taking out waste water and storm sewage canals for overflow when there was heavy rain. In addition to sophisticated water and sewer systems they devised elaborate heating systems.


restored bathroom in small room off the "Queen's Room'




Stone drainage channels from Agia Triada, a villa

At Knossos, the Minoans took advantage of the steep grade of the land to devise a drainage system with lavatories, sinks and manholes. Archaeologists have found pipe laid in depths from just below the surface in one area to almost 11 feet deep in others.

They constructed a main sewer of masonry, which linked four large stone shafts emanating from the upper stories of the palace. Evidently the shafts acted as ventilators and chutes for household refuse. The shafts and conduit were formed by cement-lined limestone flags, but earthenware or burnt clay pipes were used in the remainder of the system. These were laid out under passages, not under the living rooms.

The sewer system consisted of terra cotta pipes, from 4"-6" in diameter. Clay sewer pipe from Knosso
sewer pipe.jpg


The rain water from the roofs and the courts, and the overflows from the cisterns carried the water down into buried drains of pottery pipe. The pipes had perfect socket joints, so tapered that the narrow end of one pipe fixed tightly into the broad end of the next one. The tapering sections allowed a jetting action to prevent accumulation of sediment.

At Knossos we find the earliest known flushing toilet. The toilet was screened off by partitions and was flushed by rain water or by water held in cisterns from conduits built into the wall.

Not just palaces but ordinary homes were heated with sophisticated hypocaust systems, where heat was conducted under the floor, the earliest known to exist.

In the room dubbed the "queen's bathroom" decorated with wall frescoes, we find plaster stands which held ewers and washing basins, and a five-foot long tapered bathtub made of painted terra cotta and decorated with watery


ceramic water pipe from Knossos

reeds. There was no obvious outlet but used water was removed and discarded into a hole in the floor which connected to the main drain which discharged into the river Kairatos. Some of the stone slabs of the floor at Knossos have been partially removed to reveal the extensive sewage canal system underneath the whole settlement.

Pipes with running water and toilets found on Santorini are the oldest ever discovered. The dual pipe system suggests hot and cold running water.
 
OP
OP
dreamtime

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
255
Likes
1,320
#12
@Ice Nine When I see such bathtub this reminds me of pre 1700 societies. Knossos seems to be not much different from other societies vanishing 300-400 years ago (Indus Valley civ for example). Then archeologists string together all of those vanished kingdoms chronologically to invent some kind of supposed time line of human evolution. But the plaster frescos/design in Knossis and the modern looking bathtub makes this 1600 tech to me. I wouldn't even be surprised if Knossis got wiped out only 150-200 years ago.

I wonder where the evidence is for calling it the "Queen's room" and "Royal Palace", etc., instead of it being just a normal house with a bathtub. Unfortunately they are also reconstructing everything and painting everything new with vibrant colors, which distorts the entire historical evidence, so this isn't science, but tourism.

So Knossos was discovered in 1880, which makes me think it was destroyed around 50-200 years earlier at max.

Here's how the "excavation' went according to Wikipedia:

Supported by Duncan Mackenzie, who had recommended himself through the excavations on the island of Melos, and Mr. Fyfe, the architect of the British School of Athens, Evans initially employed 30 workers with the excavations. But quickly their number grew to 200, with whose help he uncovered 20,000 square meters of the palace in three years. Since he was no longer interested in the buildings of the Mycenaean period, they were demolished without documentation.
Evans' idiosyncratic naming of rooms such as the Queen's Throne Room, Bathroom, Caravanserai, Customs House and others earned him much criticism from archaeologists. Many archaeologists see in this the suggestion of a certainty of findings that by no means exists. His bold reconstructions are highly controversial because they cement these individual interpretations and make further research on the object practically impossible. In his efforts to preserve the exposed rooms and artefacts from decay and to give the viewer an idea of the conceivable appearance of the former palace, he first experimented with wood imported from England and Scandinavia. When it did not have the longevity he had hoped for, he used the most modern and durable building material of the time, concrete. But this material is much heavier than antique plaster and wooden constructions and, after almost a hundred years, needs ongoing restoration in view of the thousands of tourists every day. On the other hand, Evans must be seen as a child of his time, in which ancient ruins were restored in the spirit of Philhellenism.
Also the effects of Emile Gilliéron, who together with his son Emile (1885-1939) played an important role in the restoration (and "artistically very freely"[9]) of frescoes and other finds in Knossos for Arthur Evans, are possibly to be regarded as forgeries.



I'm not an expert, but there might be more to the story of ancient sanitation:

Private toilets were different, Jansen says. In residences, commodes were often in or near kitchens, which was practical because they were also used to dispose of food scraps. Although people flushed the toilets with buckets of water, the loos were rarely connected to sewers. When the pits filled up, they were probably emptied, either into gardens or fields outside the town, Jansen says.
Sewers — long thought to be a crowning achievement of Roman civilization — were in fact less widespread than once thought and might not have been very effective, says Koloski-Ostrow. In a book published last year3, she considered whether Roman sewers would have adhered to any of the modern principles of sanitation engineering, including regular aeration and features to control the deposition of solid waste, which would reduce the stench as well as improve flow. To a great extent, the sewers didn't meet the standards. Her own recent explorations of the Cloaca Maxima, the great sewer under Rome, revealed that some channels could get completely blocked with silt in less than a year. At the very least, they would have required regular cleaning — dirty and dangerous work.
The secret history of ancient toilets

Additionally the way the hypocaust systems were heated is still a mystery. They certainly didn't use wood, as there are no remains of ash anywhere to be found, and it has been shown that heating a Roman house with a fire will destroy the hypocaust pipes.

So we can dig out all kinds of pipes and infrastructure, but we are not necessarily able to correctly interpret their original function.
 
Last edited:

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
395
Likes
1,551
#13
Well we are all gonna be experts in ancient sanitation pretty soon. :ROFLMAO: We just need to keep digging, but maybe not in the great sewer of Rome.

I can't let this thought escape me. Here is why the paint looks so fresh in Knossos, archaeologist Sir Arthur Evans had the place spruced up a bit!!! yes more skullduggery. :mad:
The Palace At Knossos
"Yet one aspect of his story rather sours his achievements – namely the somewhat eccentric restoration of the Palace of Knossos he led after 1905.

Rather than leaving the ruins in the state they were uncovered, Evans believed the former splendour of Knossos could somehow be revived – giving visitors a lucid vision of the past – if sections of the palace were reconstructed. He hired talented Dutch-Englishman artist Piet De Jong – a man who had no archaeological training – to spearhead a spate of building activity that would make contemporary antiquarians wince in disgust. Knossos was recreated, in substantial part, in Evans’ own modernist vision.

Wooden beams and squat reinforced concrete pillars coloured a severe tone of red (Knossos has the dubious distinction of being one of the first reinforced concrete buildings in Crete), were thrown up left right and centre, to prop up crumbling walls, covering original brickwork and features in the process. The evidence Evans based his restorations on was fragmentary at best. Often he plucked his romantic interpretations of rooms and buildings’ purposes, and his notions of how they should be restored, from thin air.

The throne room – so-called because of a carved gypsum chair discovered set into the wall which Evans described as “the oldest throne in Europe” – was deemed to be a spot of particular significance, receiving especially peculiar attention. A scaffold was initially built over the room to give it protection, since the throne couldn’t be removed. Evans later decided to replace this scaffold with wood-and-plaster columns for artistic effect, creating a fabricated room. Inside he gave free reign to a father-son team of French artists, Émile Gilléron Junior and Senior, to paint the walls. He would claim they had based their gaudy images – of the likes of griffins crouching in long grass and a Cretan youth with long curly hair – on original designs, but in fact many of them were completely made-up.

Some of the celebrated remains of ancient Knossos frescoes mentioned above, meanwhile, were treated to fanciful reconstruction and placement by De Jong. The so-called “dolphin fresco” is one of its most conspicuous examples: a brilliant blue cascade of swimming dolphins, fish and sea urchins hung on the east wall of the Queen’s Megaron. De Jong based it on just tiny original fragments, then from there let his imagination run wild. While undoubtedly pretty and elegant, it looks glaringly out of epoch.

Archaeological Delinquent or Visionary?
Attitudes towards Evans’ reconstruction of Knossos among contemporary archaeologists are largely hostile – some regard his actions as tantamount to archaeological delinquency. But visitors – while pointing out that it’s not difficult to distinguish between original temple features and Evans’ restorations – will often argue that the reconstructed features are visionary in the way that they yield a unique and tangible insight into life inside the hub of Minoan culture, one that no mere ruins could ever offer.
Source: Heritage-Ke
 
Messages
16
Likes
60
#14
At the Burning Man festival early on for years they had a major feces collection and disposal issue until somebody suggested they dump the waste onto a layer of straw which develops into a a feces straw pile. I recall they made this pile on wheel barrows to cart away at the end of a long day. Problem perfectly solved. It could be the castle dwellers just feceed into buckets under a chair then that was dumped onto a straw pile outside the window regardless of height off the ground. That pile could have been on a cart to take away at the end of the day or week to the local compost pile. As to why that method seems to have dropped out of favor perhaps village density and price of hay increased to the point where it was more cost effective to just throw it out the window.
 

mythstifieD

Well-known member
Messages
176
Likes
561
#15
What about regular houses and middle peasantry? They were certainly human.

Would be interesting if they had better sanitation than the rulers.
 

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,798
Likes
8,266
#16
At the Burning Man festival early on for years they had a major feces collection and disposal issue until somebody suggested they dump the waste onto a layer of straw which develops into a a feces straw pile. I recall they made this pile on wheel barrows to cart away at the end of a long day. Problem perfectly solved. It could be the castle dwellers just feceed into buckets under a chair then that was dumped onto a straw pile outside the window regardless of height off the ground. That pile could have been on a cart to take away at the end of the day or week to the local compost pile. As to why that method seems to have dropped out of favor perhaps village density and price of hay increased to the point where it was more cost effective to just throw it out the window.
I have hard time picturing this scenario pertaining to structures like Ponce de Leon hotel below.

Ponce De Leon Hotel.jpg
 
Messages
16
Likes
60
#17
I have hard time picturing this scenario pertaining to structures like Ponce de Leon hotel below.

Perhaps the common-sensical peasants only. The notion here is that the rich and the peasants could have been completely different species/beings - one human and illiterate but street smart and the other something like the robots in Aliens II. However even advanced robots have waste to get rid of like zinc oxide when their zinc air batteries need changing. That would happen only once every 2 weeks or so.

The best minds at Burning Man could not figure out an optimum poop solution for years and they put up with it or I should say their crap brigade did. Then the solution turned out to be very simple so my guess it was the peasants "only" in years past that used this technique and the best and bravest back then like at Burning Man not too long ago, just crapped in the corner and stacked it up for removal or did not crap at all. Also, pre 1700 this or a similar simple approach could have been used everywhere and then the 1700 or so event changed everything and then for some very strange reason no need for it and the architecture shows it.
 

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,798
Likes
8,266
#18
What about regular houses and middle peasantry? They were certainly human.
Unfortunately it appears that bathrooms was not something they were taking pictures of in 1850s. Judging by the 1875 public ones in Paris, the needs were the same. Yet what they used for the purposes is a mystery.

In general I noticed that we do not really have 1850ish pictures of the 16 foot ceiling room interiors. I wonder why.
 

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
395
Likes
1,551
#19
My family had outhouses, out back of their houses. I can't tell you have many stories I'd hear as a kid about them having to go out in the freezing weather to the outhouse. And that included my great grandma who was born in 1879, she passed away in 1966. After 1893 they were using the Sear's Catalog for toilet paper. Before that they had the Old Farmer's Almanac and corn cobs. I never heard a word about chamber pots or anything of that nature. Who would want to actually crap in their house!

Maybe they were like Beldar Conehead and had not butt-hole, hence no crapping issues. (not talking about my family now) :rolleyes:

Beldar.jpg
 

ISeenItFirst

Well-known member
Messages
454
Likes
829
#20
I don't know about other places, but in my region, terra cotta sewer pipe, which looks very similar to what is seen above, was the standard all the way up to modern times. Mostly PVC now, and occasionally you find other materials, but it is still very common to have terra cotta sewer lines.
 

Similar threads

Top