Prehistoric cave art appears to be fake... all of it

KorbenDallas

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Cave paintings are painted drawings on cave walls or ceilings, mainly of prehistoric origin, beginning roughly 40,000 years ago in Eurasia. The exact purpose of the Paleolithic cave paintings is not known. Evidence suggests that they were not merely decorations of living areas, since the caves in which they have been found do not have signs of ongoing habitation, and they are often in relatively inaccessible chambers. Some theories hold that cave paintings may have been a form of communication, while other theories ascribe them a religious or ceremonial purpose. The paintings are remarkably similar around the world, commonly depicting impressive animals. Humans mainly appear as images of hands, mostly hand stencils made by blowing pigment on a hand held to the wall.

Cueva de las Manos located Perito Moreno, Argentina.
The art in the cave is between 13,000–9,000 years old.

SantaCruz-CuevaManos.jpg

The earliest known cave paintings are at least 64,000 years old. Represented by three red non-figurative symbols found in the caves of Maltravieso, Ardales and La Pasiega, Spain, these predate the arrival of modern humans to Europe by at least 20,000 years and thus must have been made by Neanderthals.

La Pasiega Cave art. 64,000 years old.
bisonte_caballo_pasiega_ponte_viesgo.jpg

The earliest known cave paintings of animals are at least 35,000 years old and were found in caves in the district of Maros, located in Bantimurung district, South Sulawesi, Indonesia, according to datings announced in 2014. Previously it was believed that the earliest figurative paintings were in Europe, dating back to the Aurignacian period, approximately 30,000 to 32,000 years ago, in the Chauvet Cave in France, and in the Coliboaia Cave in Romania.

Rhinos and Deer: Chauvet Cave.
27,000-32,000 years old.
Deer_Chauvet_Cave.jpg Rhinos_Chauvet_Cave.jpg
Nearly 340 caves have now been discovered in France and Spain that contain art from prehistoric times. Hundreds of additional caves with "prehistoric art" are located elsewhere throughout the world.

The Beginning

I think we are being lied to again. Our mankind had no clue about this so-called "cave art" until 1879. The story goes like this, "The Altamira cave, now famous for its unique collection of prehistoric art, was well known to local people, but had not been given much attention until in 1868, when it was "discovered" by the hunter Modesto Peres. Sautuola then started exploring the caves in 1875. He did not become aware of the paintings, however, until 1879, when his daughter Maria, nine years old at the time, incidentally noticed that the ceiling was covered by images of bisons. Sautuola, having seen similar images engraved on Paleolithic objects displayed at the World Exposition in Paris the year before, rightly assumed that the paintings might also date from the Stone Age. He therefore engaged an archaeologist from the University of Madrid to help him in his further work."

María and Marcelino de Sautuola,
the discoverers of the Altamira paintings
María_Sanz_de_Sautuola.jpg Sanz_de_Sautuola.jpg
KD: There was not a single cave art discovered up to 1879 in the world. In 1878 Maria's father Marcelino Sanz de Sautuola visited the third Paris World's Fair, called an Exposition Universelle. There, our friend Marcelino observed "similar images engraved on Paleolithic objects". All over sudden in 1879 his daughter "incidentally noticed that the ceiling was covered by images of bisons" . Coincidentally, those bisons were from the Stone Age. (LOL: Sautuola's daughter later married into the Botín family of Cantabrian bourgeoisie. The current owners of Banco Santander are Sautuola's descendants.)
It's amazing, but Marcelino de Sautuola was the owner of the land where the Altamira cave was found
The Cave of Altamira is renowned for its numerous parietal cave paintings featuring charcoal drawings and polychrome paintings of contemporary local fauna and human hands, created during the Upper Paleolithic. The earliest paintings in the cave were executed around 35,500 years ago.

Professor Juan Vilanova y Piera supported Sautuola's assumptions, and they published their results in 1880, to much public acclaim. But the scientific society was reluctant to accept the presumed antiquity of the paintings.

BUT: It was not until 1902, when several other findings of prehistoric paintings had served to render the hypothesis of the extreme antiquity of the Altamira-paintings less shocking (and forgery less likely), that the scientific society retracted their opposition to the Spaniards.

FUN fact: Altamira was the first European (same goes for all the other regions) cave for which prehistoric origin of the paintings was suggested and promoted.

Chain Reaction

And here comes this miracle of discovery - suddenly caves with prehistoric art started getting discovered all over the world.
Unfortunately, but paint...

All this cave art was doing just fine for tens of thousands of years. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, in the second half of the 20th century, this magic "prehistoric paint" decided to start flaking off, falling off and suffer all types of deterioration. It appears that even such a durable substance as our "prehistoric paint" has its expiration date.

What do scientists say? They blame "toxic" human breath and other natural phenomena.
Some of the caves are closed, and some have nearby facilities where you can enjoy the replicas of the "prehistoric" art.

KD Summary
  • Up until 1879 this mankind chose not to notice the Cave Art present for at least 40,000 years in hundreds (if not thousands) of various caves throughout the world.
  • In 1878 Sautuola visited an exhibition where he observed similar images engraved on Paleolithic objects. In 1879 Sautuola miraculously located prehistoric paintings on his property. After 1879 people started finding this "prehistoric" cave art left and right.
  • After the eternity of doing just fine, "prehistoric" cave paintings start to deteriorate in the 20th century. This causes multiple cave closures and other visiting limitations.
  • These days, Sautuola descendents own the Santander bank.
  • Meanwhile our children are being taught: Long before Picasso, ancient artists were making creative works of their own, mixing pigments, crafting beads out of seashells, and painting murals on cave walls. These artistic innovators were probably Neanderthals.

What's your opinion on this?
 

Yergen

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#2
We keep coming back to the 1800's as a point of divergence in real history and forged history. So what happened?

Did the survivors hide in the caves and paint those before they emerged during that time period?
Did these scientists simply forge them for notoriety or to hide something?

List of Stone Age art
A lot of these seem to be discovered in the 1800-1900's, isn't that interesting...
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#3
Not a lot, all of them were discovered after the Altamira paintings.

I think the survivors would have written something. :cool:
 

ion.brad

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#4
What a hoaaaaax! I would never thought that the discoverer of the Altamira cave paintings made the discovery on his own property after receiving instructions in Paris! Looks like his teachers were very pleased if we take into consideration the evolution of the family finances!

You are calling Tartaria the extincted civilization after an old map and in Romania there is a village called "Tărtăria" in Săliște comune, Alba county. In Romanian "ă" is read like "a" from "a town" or "a tree". There were discovered "Tăblițele de la Tărtăria"/"The tables from Tărtăria", three very small cob pieces written in an undecifered language.

I do not know if "comune" is an English word: in Romania two or more villages are grouped into a "comuna" and the mayor is in the biggest village.
 

mythstifieD

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#6
I don't have time at the moment but it would be interesting if it's possible to determine how paint from that era ages over time, especially on rock.

There must be some studies of an analog nature, perhaps deterioration of murals?
 

BStankman

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#8
No, it doesn't pass the observation common sense test, does it?
Paint degrades rapidly in a damp environment.
Best paint we had was lead, and they took it away from us.

What is contemporary to that time?
Darwin's "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life," 1859
In a time prior to public education it is mostly rejected and needs some fake evidence.
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#9
It sounds that pretty soon all the caves will be faux versions of the “original” ones.
There are good reasons why the actual wonders of Chauvet will never be opened up to the public. Other painted caves – most notoriously Lascaux – were seriously damaged by exposure to visitors’ collective bad breath before scientists realised how vulnerable this ancient art can be to human contact.
Don’t fall for a fake: the Chauvet cave art replica is nonsense

I don't know about you but it just sounds funny. 35,000 years of floods, wild birds, animals and what not, did not damage the art. 80 years after it was discovered, Chauvet cave art is locked up forever for... preservation.
 
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BStankman

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#10
Don't want to derail, but paleontology has the same exact pattern in the same period if history. A contemporary example.

Dinosaurs weren't hypothesized until 1841 by British scientist Richard Owen.
Then the flood of falsified discoveries in the Bone wars from 1877 to 1892.

The evidence of the hoax is out there if you care to look. Some of it is in plain sight.

dino.jpg
The 1800's is truly the age of deception.
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#11
Yup, it's a separate interesting topic we could cover. Dinos are probably not as straight forward as this cave art. Whoever wants to discuss it could start a separate thread for it. If not, I will try in a few days or so :)
 
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#12
You may want to look into indigenous Australian art as it is some of the oldest around (is what they say).

a Palatine missionary, Father Worms, who worked in the Kalumburu area in the 1930s, quoted a Gwini elder as “of the opinion that another people, who occupied this district long before their arrival, produced them” (Worms 1955).

them being the rock art

The Gwion or Bradshaw art style of Australia’s Kimberley region is undoubtedly among the earliest rock art in the country - but is it Pleistocene?

Nice PDF there, if you go by their carbon dating it has been there for at least 4000 years but I know that is a point of contention lol

ind.png
Interesting style to draw the people in.
I think biggest notes are that the indigenous that spoke to first contact europeans didn't relate this art to their own culture or people (they had their own art such as dot paintings etc you can look into but I wonder did they do any of this type of thing on their own, they certainly don't take credit for any cave art).
They were really big on passing down their culture through word of mouth and stories to the next generations so I wonder what they thought of these foreign art pieces. The local tribes were supposedly around for thousands of years, with what I know of aboriginal culture (I'm australian, but not indigenous) it seems unlikely they would not know their own art.

He said one of the figures appeared to be wearing a full gown, and what Grey interpreted as writing on the headband, which people thought could be Arabic or Chinese.

Supposedly there was art like that paragraph above describes as well but no pics remain it was destroyed i believe. There's some story where they were offended cause people thought it supported alien theories bla bla.

Idk if this exactly supports or contradicts your claim, or Australia could be seperate to a lot of it. But a lot to unpack on this topic. I'm not entirely satisfied with the post but i'm tired.

Here

edit: In case it wasn't obvious, my main argument is that the tribe has been around for as long or longer than what they have carbon dated the painting as, yet the indigenous claim it came from a people before them. The 'scholars' argue some of the traditions and clothing lines up with this tribe so it has to be theirs but I think they would know their own culture/art better. So it's a lead of sorts.
 
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