Seattle regrading or unearthing? Which one was it?

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,630
Likes
7,130
#1
I have been looking at these pictures for a while now. They definitely add to the strangeness of the time frame when the majority of the bizarre events took place.

So what am I talking about? Some call it The Great Seattle Regrade, some call it the Denny Regrade. Here is what Wikipedia has to say on the matter, "When white settlers first came to Seattle in the early 1850s, the tides of Elliott Bay lapped at the base of Beacon Hill. The original location of the settlement that became Seattle—today's Pioneer Square—was a low-lying island. A series of regrades leveled paths for roads, demolished Denny Hill, and turned much of Jackson Hill (a remnant of which remains along Main Street in the International District) into a near-canyon between First and Beacon Hills. The roughly 50,000,000 short tons (45,400,000 t) of earth from these 60 regrades provided landfill for the city's waterfront and the industrial/commercial neighborhood now known as SoDo, and built Harbor Island, at the time the largest man-made island in the world.

The Denny Regrade project was the removal of Denny Hill, one of the proverbial seven hills of Seattle. It ran east from First Avenue between Pike Street and Denny Way. Hill and street were named after the Denny family, who were among the city's earliest white inhabitants. The First Avenue regrade was started in 1897 and completed on January 6, 1899. From 1902 to 1911, the hill was sluiced into Elliott Bay by pumping water from Lake Union using hydraulic mining techniques, in a series of regrades along Pike and Pine Streets, Second Avenue, and the massive Denny Regrade No. 1 which regraded everything remaining between Fifth Avenue and the waterfront. In 1929–30, Denny Regrade No. 2 removed the final pieces of the hill east of Fifth Avenue using steam shovels."

In a nutshell: several huge hills were removed to make life easier for the citizens of Seattle.

Funny thing, but on the 1891 Bird's Eye View of Seattle, the artist forgot to show the hills to be regraded later. You can use the link for a better quality image.

1891 - birds eye view Seattle_1.jpg

Basically, not to make this topic longer then it has to be, I will just present a few regrading photographs. What I see in those pictures are buildings being dug out. For some of those not as much as being dug out but rather the unnecessary dirt being removed. Look closer to where dirt meets the buildings.

Seattle_regrade_2.jpg Seattle_regrade_3.jpg Seattle_regrade_4.jpg
Seattle_regrade_6.gif Seattle_regrade_5.gif Seattle_regrade_1.jpg
For the above six images I could say, that the observed "regrading" appears to be questionable at the very least. Huge multistory buildings are siting within the natural pass of a normal hill, thus making those buildings suspects to being partially buried under the dirt. I do not believe for a second that the technology of the late 19th, and early 20th century would allow to lower down a 15 story building by as much as 100 feet.
  • And specifically for the last 3 of the above 6 images. What exactly is being done to the buildings? Are they being lowered? It does not look so, and I do not think so. What we see is the dirt being removed from around those buildings. What we do see once the dirt has been removed is that the buildings were substantially buried in the dirt. How is that possible? Even hypothetically these buildings can not be older then the city itself, which is 50 years max. In reality they had to be 20-30 years old at the most. Why were those buildings buried that deep? What happened?
The below image prompts me to ask a simple question of what is this building doing there? It is not some sort of a wooden hut, or a tent. The right side of the building looks partially destroyed. The roof appears to have fallen in. The entire building looks either destroyed, or unfinished (this one I highly question), yet there is no sign of construction. Right next to it thousands of tonnes of dirt have been removed. This building appears to be old. Are they going to lower it down? What's going on?

Seattle_regrade_y_1.jpg

Then we have the scale of the tragedy, so to speak. The mountains of dirt had to be moved to accommodate for the lack of planning I guess, that is if you think conventionally. This is the end of the 19th century, and Seattle did not even get established till like 1851. If you know your traditional history, the area around Seattle was still widely available for settling. Up and down the coast no other cities had to play these "musical chairs" with landscaping. Apparently those early Seattleites did not care about finding easier ways.

One way or the other, we have the bizarre operation resulting in these weirdly looking mounds of clay or whatever. Was there anything inside? (buildings?)

Seattle_regrade_x_1.jpg Seattle_regrade_x_2.jpg
With all that we can clearly see that some of the smaller buildings were indeed lowered down. But the key word is small, and I have little doubt that it was doable at the end of the 19th century, and definitely was later on in the 1920s.

Seattle_regrade_z_1.jpg Seattle_regrade_z_2.jpg

Now let us look at this water technique used (there were more conventional ones as well). If you ever tried to pull this off in your own backyard using a simple hose, you would notice that huge amounts of water quickly accumulate in the area. You water stream punches a hole in the dirt, and then you have to wait for the water to clear the way. Wouldn't there have to be an ocean of water when you use this technique trying to remove the dirt?

The more dramatic Denny Regrade No. 1 (1908–1911) sluiced away the entire half of the hill closest to the waterfront, about 27 city blocks extending from Pine Street to Cedar Street and from Second to Fifth Avenues. 20,000,000 US gallons (75,708 kl) of water a day were pumped from Lake Union, to be aimed at the hill as jets of water, then run through tunnels to Elliott Bay.
Seattle_regrade_ss_1.jpg Seattle_regrade_ss_2.jpg Seattle_regrade_ss_3.jpg
I keep on having this feeling that pictures do not match the explanation once again. At first Seattle manages to erect 5.5k of buildings within 18 months. Then we have this magical dirt removal, which only makes sense when looked at from the historical perspective.

* * * * *

My opinion, that there were multiple buildings produced by the previous spin of our civilization. Some of those building were either entirely, or partially buried under the dirt from an unknown event of Biblical proportions. These buried buildings put Seattle in line with the rest of the world: Mud flood, dirt rain, and the story of the buried buildings. For whatever reason we are not privy to the knowledge of what happened in the 19th century. As a result we are being fed bogus stories, like this one, or the one where the entire City of Chicago was raised by at least six feet.

Related links:
 

GoldenGirl

New member
Messages
1
Likes
2
#5
It was all done post the big fire in 1889. The building you saw that was damaged could very well have been from the fire. There are some good pics in this link: 10 Photos Before & After The Great Seattle Fire of 1889 and I'm sure there's a wikipedia article also... Did you not know about the fire that took out all of downtown? I learned about it back in the 80's on my first trip to Seattle. Did the "Pioneer Quare" tour.
 
OP
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,630
Likes
7,130
#6
It was all done post the big fire in 1889. The building you saw that was damaged could very well have been from the fire. There are some good pics in this link: 10 Photos Before & After The Great Seattle Fire of 1889 and I'm sure there's a wikipedia article also... Did you not know about the fire that took out all of downtown? I learned about it back in the 80's on my first trip to Seattle. Did the "Pioneer Quare" tour.
Hi there, pretty sure I've heard a thing or two about the Great Seattle Fire, as well as a few hundred of the other ones.
As far as the below building goes. I mentioned it, because the hill is supposedly getting taken down. What are they going to do with the building, lower it down like some small wooden buildings? If that is the case, I would love to see a photo of the process, but there is none.

Seattle_regrade_y_1.jpg
 

WildFire2000

Well-known member
Messages
72
Likes
334
#7
Korbin? Seattle Underground Ever been down there? Any ideas?

I read that article on the 'raising of Chicago' and ... seriously? They moved entire buildings along the streets, 9 buildings a day? Businesses stayed open and people just climbed onto, and into, roving buildings to shop and whatever while the buildings relocated throughout Chicago? I'm... I don't know, The idea that we'd even try something of that magnitude today with the same style or size buildings seems ridiculous. I know people move houses from time to time in places, but the expense ... Example, co-worker of mine needs to move an old early 1900's house onto a raised foundation, they're telling her they can't insure the house or perform any renovations until the foundation is reset. But she can't do it because it costs too much. One house, 2 stories. And yet, they were rolling dozens of businesses and whatnot all over Chicago? - Can we do it? Sure.. Some of it, but the idea they rolled entire blocks around is mind-boggling. How rich were we back then? I mean, seriously... looking at our infrastructure now compared to back then and the ... waste... they went through with SO MANY projects, and we can't get someone to replace the piping and water infrastructure in Flint Michigan? Something's funky.
 
OP
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,630
Likes
7,130
#8
Yup, have been to the underground tour. Everything is consistent with Seattle being hit by a mud flood. Of course, they have their own story about sewers getting backed up due to high tides, and how they had to raise things.

Chicago raising story even more moronic, I have to admit. They came up with pure science fiction to cover up for the catastrophic event. There will be an article on this with time.
 

The Wack

Active member
Messages
64
Likes
130
#9
Cant wait to see the Chicago post KD. The hotel being jacked story is pretty funny.
 

humanoidlord

Well-known member
Messages
648
Likes
496
#10
Yup, have been to the underground tour. Everything is consistent with Seattle being hit by a mud flood. Of course, they have their own story about sewers getting backed up due to high tides, and how they had to raise things.

Chicago raising story even more moronic, I have to admit. They came up with pure science fiction to cover up for the catastrophic event. There will be an article on this with time.
i am looking at the engravings of the raising and holy fuck, who believes in this crap?
science fiction indeed....
 

Casimir

Active member
Messages
27
Likes
108
#16
I really can't get through those mounds they just left piled high during the regrade. I can't think of any reason why they would ignore seemingly random mounds of earth. Lets say those exact spots happened to not be included in the city plan, why just leave them towering like that instead of maybe softening them into a hill or something? The fact those little areas are just completely left alone is getting to me.

Look at the arc of the water coming from the hoses, it doesn't look like its the most powerful pressure like we are familiar with today with fire hydrants and trucks. Would water softly raining down on a mountain really trim it down fast enough to be used in construction? I get with the amount of water blasting out, weight and gravity are going to be a significant factor but I can't see it happening with the distance of many of the arcs and the actual arcs themselves. Maybe if it was high pressure like today's firefighting, maybe. Otherwise its almost like an archaelogical dig where they reach a point they have to use toothbrushes to preserve the finer materiel. Maybe we were drizzling out old houses?

First thing that came to mind when I saw the ignored mounds of earth was Monument Valley. It's CALLED *Monument* Valley. Oh and there's also The Valley of the Gods. Second picture is Shiprock, NM. The Navajo Indians revere this for its religious significance. It represents where the gods and humanity lived, and humans only used to come down off this Mount Olympus-esque rock to plant crops. Legend holds a lightning strike obliterated the only path up. I feel like this is more allegorical and less literal. Anyways...

I know there's a theory out there about these being the roots of ancient trees, what if they are the remains of >the tops of< some *petrified* metropolis? Along the same lines as digging out a city, I am not imagining these buildings beginning at surface level, but perhaps the tops of a larger structure that was mostly buried after some other "mud flood" type event.

I wonder if GPR has ever been flown over the area, somehow I doubt it- at least in the public domain.

Finally, that one house on all the stacked pallets is hilarious. Imagine an engineer knocking on your door, explaining what they were about to do to your house. "See here it will all be precariously balanced on a bunch of pallets we got from Home Depot until we are finished with the regrade. It'll be fine don't worry about it."

1541605348418.png

1541605397535.png

monument-valley-view-from-hunts-mesa_shutterstock_680.jpg

1200px-Shiprock.snodgrass3.jpg
 
Messages
11
Likes
47
#17
Basically, not to make this topic longer then it has to be, I will just present a few regrading photographs. What I see in those pictures are buildings being dug out. For some of those not as much as being dug out but rather the unnecessary dirt being removed. Look closer to where dirt meets the buildings.
Those regrading photos are really something...i am surely missing something but but i still feel unease about some, questionning myself..

regrade work seattle.jpg

To me, from what i see here the red line represent the ground level before they start the regrade. and whats left here looks "in place" its not dumped dirt against the wall by the workers here.
this building has at Least one floor plus foundations on this side under mud that is already surprising.
Seeing that is all made of bricks aparently, material who react like a sponge, it needs to "breath" to dry.we can see the wall is "raw" even no lime finition to protect it.
I imagine during bad seasons or heavy rains the walls was maybe a bit wet lol.

ok the guys install on side of the hill, i think they scoop it to make "like staircase". they are leveled they make foundations.

knowing that they will make a street just near and another building just after (we see on right),
what's the point to add back all this sandyclay around after they finished? because when they built both buildings they needed space around to work
(meaning that in original version its them who put the dirt back)
they could just have left the first floor out of earth whit only buried foundation , to me it makes more sense but i dunno ...
We can see the stratigraphy (even in black and white) is quite homogeneous... no building waste materials or beam or whatever we could maybe see in an embankment after constructions.
its just on most of the photos sand and clay.....

Seattle_regrade_5b.jpg

Again on this one on the right, a full level of the building under dirt.
They really didn't care?
if it's foundation, why it looks like walls? why its not thicker or whit reinforcements
 
Last edited:

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
277
Likes
1,071
#18
I have something to bring up about Seattle, if it was regraded to make it less hilly, then why in the hell are there so many steep streets in Seattle.

Here is a list on a Bike Blog of all the steep streets. And I think it is a bonus that it is from 1960, because we are nearer to the time in the past when Seattle was "lowered/regraded"..... check out the list.

I've driven a lot in Seattle and over the years when I had a stick shift, I made damn sure I didn't have to go up some of these streets and have to stop at a stoplight mid hill.

Some of the steepest streets in Seattle

@Flyinrod those 2 pictures in particular bother me as well, same things you pointed out.
 
Last edited:
Top