The "Pretenders". Royal imposters of the 1600's.

CyborgNinja

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#1
There are several components to a successful heist. First you need a mark, in this case its the entirety of humanity, 'us'. Then your gonna need a plan, "the Job" the bigger the better, the complete hijacking of recorded history! Then theres the crew. Youre gonna need a fixer, this guys gonna forge the right documents and get the uniforms you need "Jesuits". Last but not least your gonna need an inside man. In this particular scenario were talking about imposters. Now you have all your ducks in a row, you're ready and its GO time, all you need is a distraction...

The Time of Troubles was a period of Russian history comprising the years of interregnum between the death of the last Russian Tsar of the Rurik Dynasty, Feodor Ivanovich, in 1598, and the establishment of the Romanov Dynasty in 1613. In 1601–03, Russia suffered a famine that killed one-third of the population, about two million. At the time, during the Polish–Russian War (1605–18) (known as the Dimitriads), Russia was occupied by the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, and suffered from many civil uprisings, usurpers and impostors. -Wikipedia

As you may or may not be aware, the Romanov family were not Russian, it is said that they spoke French among themselves. Also events like mass famine are indicators of larger cataclysmic events such as meteor showers or cosmological disturbances. With the mass starvation and chaos the pretenders emerged and set their plan into motion. Forgive me if what follows isn't an extensive history but there are so many threads to this story that we would be here all day so i'll do my best to keep it brief.

The Three Pretenders.

False Dmitry I

Falser_Dmitry1Dymitr_Samozwaniec.jpg
According to historian Chester S.L. Dunning, Dmitry was
"the only Tsar ever raised to the throne by means of
a military campaign and popular uprisings".

With the unpopular tsar dead, the last impediment to Dmitry's progress had been swept away; the victorious Russian troops defected to Dmitry's side, followed soon by others, swelling the Polish ranks as they marched further in. Finally, on 1 June, the disaffected boyars of Moscow staged a palace coup, imprisoning newly crowned tsar Feodor II and his mother, the widow of Boris Godunov.

On 20 June, Dmitry made his triumphal entry into Moscow, and on 21 July, he was crowned tsar by a new Muscovite Patriarch of his own choosing, the Greek Patriarch Ignatius.
-Wikipedia

  • Dmitry planned to introduce a series of political and economical reforms. He restored Yuri's Day, the day when serfs were allowed to move to another lord.
  • In foreign policy, Dmitry sought an alliance with his sponsor, the Polish Commonwealth, and the Papal States. He planned for war against the Ottoman Empire, ordering the mass production of firearms to serve in the conflict.
  • In his correspondence, he referred to himself as "Emperor of Russia" a century before Tsar Peter I used the title, though this was not recognized at the time. Dmitry's royal depictions featured him clean-shaven, with slicked-back dark hair; an unusual look for the era.

    Death

    On the morning of 17 May 1606, ten days after Dmitry's marriage to Tsarina Marina, a massive number of boyars and commoners stormed the Kremlin. Tsar Dmitry tried to flee, jumping out a window, but fractured his leg in the fall. He fled to a bathhouse and attempted to disappear within, but was recognized and dragged out before the populace by the boyars, who killed the tsar lest he successfully muster an appeal to the crowd. His body was put on display and then cremated...

    ...Dmitry's reign had lasted a mere eleven months. Prince Shuisky then took his place as Tsar Vasili IV of Russia. However, two further impostors later appeared, False Dmitry II and False Dmitry III, the first of whom was publicly "accepted" by Tsarina Marina as her fallen husband. -
    Wikipedia

    ***

    False Dmitry II

    False Dmitry2-Pseudo-Dimitrij.jpg
    Claimed to be Tsarevich Dmitry Ivanovich,
    the youngest son of Ivan the Terrible.

    The second False Dmitry first appeared on the scene around 20 July 1607, at Starodub. He is believed to have been either a priest's son or a converted Jew, and was relatively highly educated for the time. He spoke both the Russian and Polish languages and was something of an expert in liturgical matters. He pretended at first to be the Muscovite boyar Nagoy, but falsely confessed under torture that he was Tsarevich Dmitry, whereupon he was taken at his word and joined by thousands of Cossacks, Poles, and Muscovites. -Wikipedia
    • In the course of the year Jerzy Mniszech, father of Marina Mniszech, widow of False Dmitry I, 'reunited' him with Marina, who miraculously recognized her late husband in this second Dimitry.
    • Magnates of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth who had supported False Dmitry I decided to support the second pretender as well, supplying him with some early funds and 7500 soldiers.
    • He made another unsuccessful attack on Moscow, and, supported by the Don Cossacks, recovered a hold over all south-eastern Russia. However, he was killed, while half drunk, on 11 December 1610 by a Tatar princeling, Peter Urusov, whom he had flogged.

      Death
      Hetman Stanisław Żółkiewski described this event in his memoirs:

      Having drunk deep at dinner...he ordered a sleigh to be harnessed, taking flasks of mead to the sleigh. Coming out into the open country, he drank with some boyars. Prince Peter Urusov, together with those several score horsemen with whom he was in league, was riding after him, apparently escorting him. And when the imposter had drunk very well with the boyars, Urusov drew from his holster a pistol which he had ready, and galloping up to the sleigh first shot him with the pistol, then cutting off his head and hand with his saber, took to the road.

      ***

      False Dmitry III

      noprofile.png
      Yeah this guy didnt even get a painting.
      That should give you an idea of how long he lasted.

      Supposed to have been a deacon called Sidorka, he appeared suddenly, from behind the river Narva, in the Ingrian town of Ivangorod, proclaiming himself the Tsarevich Dmitry Ivanovich, on March 28, 1611. The Cossacks, ravaging the environs of Moscow, acknowledged him as Tsar on March 2, 1612, and under threat of vengeance in case of non-compliance, the gentry of Pskov also "kissed the cross" (i.e., swore allegiance) to the thief of Pskov, as he was usually nicknamed. On May 18, 1612 he fled from Pskov, was seized and delivered up to the authorities at Moscow, and was secretly executed there.

      Rather an unsucessful attempt by this secret group to take control. Who exactly was it that these guys were trying to replace?

      ***

      Boris Godunov


      Boris_Godunov_by_anonim_17th Tartar.jpg
      Boris Fyodorovich Godunov ruled the Tsardom of Russia from 1598 to 1605.
      After the end of his reign Russia descended into the Time of Troubles.

      Boris Godunov was the most noted member of an ancient, now extinct, Russian family of Tatar origin (Chet), which came from the Horde to Kostroma in the early 14th century. This legend is written in the annals dating from early 17th century. He was descended from the Tatar Prince Chet, who went from the Golden Horde to Russia and founded the Ipatiev Monastery in Kostroma.

      Oh would you look at that, Boris was a Tatar! Its almost like there was some kind of conspiracy to steal his throne and erase his people from history. Tsk tsk tsk. This was the first in a series of "pretenders" who plauged Europe for the next four centuries. Stay tuned for more.
 

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
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#2
I believe that all of the so-called False Dmitries tried to pass themselves for the Dmitry of Uglish. The reason that False Dmytry 1 was the most successful could be that he was the real son of Ivan the Terrible. Of course we will never find out, for the History as we know it, made sure of it.

There just might be a reason why one of the greatest Russian Tsars, Ivan the Terrible, is still being portrayed as a monster human being. Yet, his achievements totally contradict his official description.

There is exactly zero evidence that he killed his son Ivan.

There is also an opinion, that the name Ivan the Terrible incorporates at least four different people, hence such a drastic difference in the behavior at different stages of life, and all the wives.
 

humanoidlord

Well-known member
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#3
There are several components to a successful heist. First you need a mark, in this case its the entirety of humanity, 'us'. Then your gonna need a plan, "the Job" the bigger the better, the complete hijacking of recorded history! Then theres the crew. Youre gonna need a fixer, this guys gonna forge the right documents and get the uniforms you need "Jesuits". Last but not least your gonna need an inside man. In this particular scenario were talking about imposters. Now you have all your ducks in a row, you're ready and its GO time, all you need is a distraction...

The Time of Troubles was a period of Russian history comprising the years of interregnum between the death of the last Russian Tsar of the Rurik Dynasty, Feodor Ivanovich, in 1598, and the establishment of the Romanov Dynasty in 1613. In 1601–03, Russia suffered a famine that killed one-third of the population, about two million. At the time, during the Polish–Russian War (1605–18) (known as the Dimitriads), Russia was occupied by the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, and suffered from many civil uprisings, usurpers and impostors. -Wikipedia

As you may or may not be aware, the Romanov family were not Russian, it is said that they spoke French among themselves. Also events like mass famine are indicators of larger cataclysmic events such as meteor showers or cosmological disturbances. With the mass starvation and chaos the pretenders emerged and set their plan into motion. Forgive me if what follows isn't an extensive history but there are so many threads to this story that we would be here all day so i'll do my best to keep it brief.

The Three Pretenders.

False Dmitry I

View attachment 2852
According to historian Chester S.L. Dunning, Dmitry was
"the only Tsar ever raised to the throne by means of
a military campaign and popular uprisings".

With the unpopular tsar dead, the last impediment to Dmitry's progress had been swept away; the victorious Russian troops defected to Dmitry's side, followed soon by others, swelling the Polish ranks as they marched further in. Finally, on 1 June, the disaffected boyars of Moscow staged a palace coup, imprisoning newly crowned tsar Feodor II and his mother, the widow of Boris Godunov.

On 20 June, Dmitry made his triumphal entry into Moscow, and on 21 July, he was crowned tsar by a new Muscovite Patriarch of his own choosing, the Greek Patriarch Ignatius. -Wikipedia

  • Dmitry planned to introduce a series of political and economical reforms. He restored Yuri's Day, the day when serfs were allowed to move to another lord.
  • In foreign policy, Dmitry sought an alliance with his sponsor, the Polish Commonwealth, and the Papal States. He planned for war against the Ottoman Empire, ordering the mass production of firearms to serve in the conflict.
  • In his correspondence, he referred to himself as "Emperor of Russia" a century before Tsar Peter I used the title, though this was not recognized at the time. Dmitry's royal depictions featured him clean-shaven, with slicked-back dark hair; an unusual look for the era.

    Death

    On the morning of 17 May 1606, ten days after Dmitry's marriage to Tsarina Marina, a massive number of boyars and commoners stormed the Kremlin. Tsar Dmitry tried to flee, jumping out a window, but fractured his leg in the fall. He fled to a bathhouse and attempted to disappear within, but was recognized and dragged out before the populace by the boyars, who killed the tsar lest he successfully muster an appeal to the crowd. His body was put on display and then cremated...

    ...Dmitry's reign had lasted a mere eleven months. Prince Shuisky then took his place as Tsar Vasili IV of Russia. However, two further impostors later appeared, False Dmitry II and False Dmitry III, the first of whom was publicly "accepted" by Tsarina Marina as her fallen husband. -
    Wikipedia

    ***

    False Dmitry II

    View attachment 2853
    Claimed to be Tsarevich Dmitry Ivanovich,
    the youngest son of Ivan the Terrible.
    The second False Dmitry first appeared on the scene around 20 July 1607, at Starodub. He is believed to have been either a priest's son or a converted Jew, and was relatively highly educated for the time. He spoke both the Russian and Polish languages and was something of an expert in liturgical matters. He pretended at first to be the Muscovite boyar Nagoy, but falsely confessed under torture that he was Tsarevich Dmitry, whereupon he was taken at his word and joined by thousands of Cossacks, Poles, and Muscovites. -Wikipedia
    • In the course of the year Jerzy Mniszech, father of Marina Mniszech, widow of False Dmitry I, 'reunited' him with Marina, who miraculously recognized her late husband in this second Dimitry.
    • Magnates of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth who had supported False Dmitry I decided to support the second pretender as well, supplying him with some early funds and 7500 soldiers.
    • He made another unsuccessful attack on Moscow, and, supported by the Don Cossacks, recovered a hold over all south-eastern Russia. However, he was killed, while half drunk, on 11 December 1610 by a Tatar princeling, Peter Urusov, whom he had flogged.

      Death
      Hetman Stanisław Żółkiewski described this event in his memoirs:

      Having drunk deep at dinner...he ordered a sleigh to be harnessed, taking flasks of mead to the sleigh. Coming out into the open country, he drank with some boyars. Prince Peter Urusov, together with those several score horsemen with whom he was in league, was riding after him, apparently escorting him. And when the imposter had drunk very well with the boyars, Urusov drew from his holster a pistol which he had ready, and galloping up to the sleigh first shot him with the pistol, then cutting off his head and hand with his saber, took to the road.

      ***

      False Dmitry III

      View attachment 2854
      Yeah this guy didnt even get a painting.
      That should give you an idea of how long he lasted.
      Supposed to have been a deacon called Sidorka, he appeared suddenly, from behind the river Narva, in the Ingrian town of Ivangorod, proclaiming himself the Tsarevich Dmitry Ivanovich, on March 28, 1611. The Cossacks, ravaging the environs of Moscow, acknowledged him as Tsar on March 2, 1612, and under threat of vengeance in case of non-compliance, the gentry of Pskov also "kissed the cross" (i.e., swore allegiance) to the thief of Pskov, as he was usually nicknamed. On May 18, 1612 he fled from Pskov, was seized and delivered up to the authorities at Moscow, and was secretly executed there.

      Rather an unsucessful attempt by this secret group to take control. Who exactly was it that these guys were trying to replace?

      ***

      Boris Godunov


      View attachment 2855
      Boris Fyodorovich Godunov ruled the Tsardom of Russia from 1598 to 1605.
      After the end of his reign Russia descended into the Time of Troubles.
      Boris Godunov was the most noted member of an ancient, now extinct, Russian family of Tatar origin (Chet), which came from the Horde to Kostroma in the early 14th century. This legend is written in the annals dating from early 17th century. He was descended from the Tatar Prince Chet, who went from the Golden Horde to Russia and founded the Ipatiev Monastery in Kostroma.

      Oh would you look at that, Boris was a Tatar! Its almost like there was some kind of conspiracy to steal his throne and erase his people from history. Tsk tsk tsk. This was the first in a series of "pretenders" who plauged Europe for the next four centuries. Stay tuned for more.
even more bizzare that nobody knew what the real dmitry looked like and accepted a bunch of obvious plants, they should know better
 

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
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#6
It was an Anastasia type situation. The real Dmyri fled with his mother when he was 8. So he'd been missing for ages. No one knew if he was alive or dead.
For me this entire topic related to those times in Russia is so super complicated, that I'm jealous of people able to navigate in that stuff.
 
OP
OP
CyborgNinja

CyborgNinja

Well-known member
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#7
For me this entire topic related to those times in Russia is so super complicated, that I'm jealous of people able to navigate in that stuff.
The communist purges of the 1950's has created a huge blank streak through eastern European history. Romania for example is named after ROME and yet no one knows why or what the history is behind that story.
 

humanoidlord

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#8
The communist purges of the 1950's has created a huge blank streak through eastern European history. Romania for example is named after ROME and yet no one knows why or what the history is behind that story.
hmmm.... that sounds so obvious in hindisght, no idea how i never noticed that before
 

KorbenDallas

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#9
Those Russian German historians did a damn good job, I have to admit. Everything is so convaluted while appearing fairly simple.
 

The Wack

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#10
Interesting topic indeed.
Another Russian 'pretender' I have heard of (from Sylvie-New-Earth) was Peter the great... the one who Found, whoops, founded St Petersburg... i think the info comes out on her episode about St Petersburg. We need some more Russian/English speaking folk translating the weirdness that is Russian 'official' history. (history that was largely written by NON-russian historians)
 

humanoidlord

Well-known member
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#11
Interesting topic indeed.
Another Russian 'pretender' I have heard of (from Sylvie-New-Earth) was Peter the great... the one who Found, whoops, founded St Petersburg... i think the info comes out on her episode about St Petersburg. We need some more Russian/English speaking folk translating the weirdness that is Russian 'official' history. (history that was largely written by NON-russian historians)
agree once again
 
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