What About the East?

druhyu

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#1
This is my first post here, and I want to begin by saying that this website is awesome, the community here is great and welcoming and I am happy to be a part of it.

What I want to discuss in this thread is something that I've noticed in all rabbit holes that one finds across the internet- an overwhelming bent towards Judeo-Christian interpretations, Biblical consequences and the like. What I feel about this is that it seems to completely ignore that, from what we know, the ancient epicenter of the world was in the East. Long before Judeo-Christianity there were civilisations in India and China, and what to my mind is the most important text is completely ignored- the Rig Veda.

rig_veda.jpg

The Rig Veda is not a historical text, but deep readings of it give so many hints to the possible landscape of the ancient world (maybe 3000 BC and prior). There are amazing cognates and connections that can be made. Here's an example:

If we look at the Rig Vedic lists of tribes, two names we find are 'Kamboja' and 'Kurus.' In later India (around 1000BC) these two names were also the names of "states" located in modern day Afghanistan and western-Iran. Here's the kicker- Kuru leads to Kurush, which leads to Cyrus. Cyrus was the name of the great Persian king, and his own dynasty- the Hakamanishyas- is said to have originated somewhere in modern day Afghanistan and western-Iran. Why do a Persian dynasty and an Indic text remember similar things? What does this mean for ancient human history? Just examining the language of Sanskrit and its cognates around the world leads to so many speculations.

Kamboja.jpg

Now this is a very small example, and maybe full analysis will reveal that it's insignificant. But looking through ancient Indic scriptures throws up countless such cases. Another thread to pick up on is chronology. The Hindu worldview maintains that 'existence' is billions of years old, and if I remember correctly the Bhagvad Mahapurana puts the number at somewhere near 14 billion years, which is remarkably close to modern physics' estimates (whether you consider that relevant or not is up to you, I concede). This worldview goes on to say that existence happens in cycles, that things rise and fall and are replaced by new things- and the cycle goes on.

Bhagvad Mahapurana_2.jpg

This ties with our suspicions of an ancient and lost history. Hindu texts talk about Vanaras, Danavas, Yakshas, Pretas, Kimpurushas and more- all hominid species and here on this website we talk of giants and the like. Hindu genealogies say that all creatures were born from two sisters- Diti and Aditi. Humans are of Aditi's lineage whereas 'demonic' hominids are of Diti's lineage. Does this reflect an ancient split of lines descended from a single species?

Bhagvad Mahapurana.jpg

I guess I could go on, but my primary point is that are we missing out on things/working on half knowledge when we use only a Judeo-Christian lens for human history? On my part, the discussions I read here seed so much that I'm now compelled to go back to Indic texts I read in childhood to find connections and things I would have missed then. I certainly need to become at least half as rigourous as you guys are when I conduct said examinations.
 

KorbenDallas

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#2
Welcome to our forum :)
Hindu texts talk about Vanaras, Danavas, Yakshas, Pretas, Kimpurushas and more...
I’m almost off to bed for a serious reply to this entire topic, but would love to hear more about these gentlemen.
 
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druhyu

druhyu

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#3
Welcome to our forum :)
I’m almost off to bed for acserious teply to this entire topic, but would love to hear more about these gentlemen.
Well you can read this when you wake up :)

Hindu mythology allows place for many non-human entities, and of these several are clearly 'hominid' from their descriptions.

Vanara, splitting the word for meaning, comes from 'Vana' + 'Nara' where Vana means forest and nara means man. So literally these were 'forest-people.'

Humans are referred in Sanskrit as 'Manava' which is a word derived from Manu- considered the progenitor of mankind. The word 'man' actually comes from Manu. And Manu's myth is pretty much the same as Noah and the flood myth.

Similarly, there was another dude called Danu, so his descendants are called Danavas, which loosely translates as 'demons' and these guys are clearly 'not us.'

Kimpurusha, this word translates actually to a question- "Is it a man?" I'm speculating that this was a name for 'hominids' or 'creatures' that ancient humans were not even sure whether they were also hominids.

Ancient Hindu mythology splits the gods into Devas and Asuras, where generally speaking Devas are 'good' and Asuras are 'bad.' But curiously enough, ancient Zoroastrianism reverses it. In Zoroastrianism the 'good' god is called Ahura (ancient Iranian uses 'h' where Sanskrit uses 's') and the 'bad' god is called 'Daeva.' Does this hint at an ancient schism between a previously one people?
 

GroundhogLfe

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#4
It's an important piece to our ancestral history, that much is granted.

I will just throw some things up as ideas that could be found some ground to work on or easily debunked.

Regarding the area the modern Maori, especially those of blonde and reddish hair have an oral tradition saying that they escaped from modern Iran / India a war against a dark skinned race. They say this happened roughly a 100 generations ago. They moved to Middle America and South America to mingle with the natives. You can find these videos from the Youtube at ease where they are interviewed and that topic is researched. I'll add a link later. The Maori general oral tradition says that they came from South America by boats to their modern area led by Tiki a great leader. This has been supported by Thor Heyerdahl and his theories of plant origins and Kon Tiki voyage that proved that te oceans could be traveled with ancestral knowledge. Yet all of this is ignored by the 'academy' to support the false narrative.




Now what arises from that premise are at least a couple of questions.

I have also read that the 'Mayan' calendar and vedic calendars have a lot of similarities. Something I have no competency to work on my own at least not yet. Apparently other similarities can also been found. Wouldn't it make sense to have these overlapses from Asia to the Americas if you had people who had come from the other part of the world?

Regarding this story there was just a map posted in the Atlantis thread where eastern Ethiopeans had been placed towards India, this could kinda support the Maori story of their description of a possible invasion / war they had escaped. It could also explain why southern Indians have a darker skin color than the northern ones.



On the common topic out of that premise and with very loose throw arounds.

The Kshatriayt have been linked to the Samurai as a like caste, something I have had no time / resiliency to study on yet with so many things to cover. But as a loose link it is also said that the story of Krishna actually begins closer to the area of modern china. The color blue he is often drawn with would just symbolize his noble blood. The vedas might have to be expanded to cover a much larger area than just that of the modern India and Pakistan.

The name Danu and Danavans automatically brought to my mind the Tuatha Danaan, people of Danu - Anu? Just a loose possible link from my trashbin.
 
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druhyu

druhyu

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#5
Regarding the area the modern Maori, especially those of blonde and reddish hair have an oral tradition saying that they escaped from modern Iran / India a war against a dark skinned race. They say this happened roughly a 100 generations ago. They moved to Middle America and South America to mingle with the natives. You can find these videos from the Youtube at ease where they are interviewed and that topic is researched. I'll add a link later. The Maori general oral tradition says that they came from South America by boats to their modern area led by Tiki a great leader. This has been supported by Thor Heyerdahl and his theories of plant origins and Kon Tiki voyage that proved that te oceans could be traveled with ancestral knowledge. Yet all of this is ignored by the 'academy' to support the false narrative.
This is an interesting thread to pick. Even the Romanis or Gypsies that are found across Eurasia have a tradition that their ancestors once lived somewhere in/near the Indian subcontinent. And the Rig Veda documents an event called "Battle of Ten Kings" where the Bharata tribe defeated a conglomerate of enemy tribes. The Bharata tribe then became ruler of India, and to this day another name for India is Bharata. The defeated tribes were forced out, to the west- and perhaps their descendants are the Romanis of today.
The Kshatriayt have been linked to the Samurai as a like caste, something I have had no time / resiliency to study on yet with so many things to cover. But as a loose link it is also said that the story of Krishna actually begins closer to the area of modern china. The color blue he is often drawn with would just symbolize his noble blood. The vedas might have to be expanded to cover a much larger area than just that of the modern India and Pakistan.
Not sure, I don't think there's much connection between Samurais and Kshatriyas except for whatever exists between 'warrior-classes' found across the world and history. I don't know much about Samurais, but Kshatriyas weren't just a specific warrior sect but also kings, rulers and sometimes- priests.

Never heard this thing about Krishna's origins being closer to modern China. Within Hindu tradition his birthplace, origins and even the tribe he hails from are considered 'well-known' and established.

On the Vedas, yup that's one of my primary points with this thread. It's clear that the Vedic geography included modern Pakistan, Afghanistan and even parts of Iran.
 

GroundhogLfe

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#6
This is an interesting thread to pick. Even the Romanis or Gypsies that are found across Eurasia have a tradition that their ancestors once lived somewhere in/near the Indian subcontinent. And the Rig Veda documents an event called "Battle of Ten Kings" where the Bharata tribe defeated a conglomerate of enemy tribes. The Bharata tribe then became ruler of India, and to this day another name for India is Bharata. The defeated tribes were forced out, to the west- and perhaps their descendants are the Romanis of today.

Not sure, I don't think there's much connection between Samurais and Kshatriyas except for whatever exists between 'warrior-classes' found across the world and history. I don't know much about Samurais, but Kshatriyas weren't just a specific warrior sect but also kings, rulers and sometimes- priests.

Never heard this thing about Krishna's origins being closer to modern China. Within Hindu tradition his birthplace, origins and even the tribe he hails from are considered 'well-known' and established.

On the Vedas, yup that's one of my primary points with this thread. It's clear that the Vedic geography included modern Pakistan, Afghanistan and even parts of Iran.
I think it's very much related to this thread regarding the Maori oral tradition as it could explain some of the similarities found between the areas and especially the possible vedic connection. I think I had it written down elsewhere already, but it was much more fitting here, the NPC within compelled me to do so.

Some of the gypsies most likely are from there as well, no doubt. Charles Godfrey Leland was a friend amongst the gypsies and gathered their oral history. Some of those gypsy groups had even identified themselves as 'Tataren', now this from Egypt from a group that had lost it's original language and become more accustomed to the locals and the same from another group from Norway. They can be pretty much from anywhere. This is well documented in his books.

Yeah, I must elaborate that I did not mean Samurais being a direct relation between the Kshatriyat, but perhaps some remnance from there. Should study can any deep similarities be found in traditions. Just brought up what I've read as a possible link for those who might have knowledge or could take interest in resolving it. And maybe it is nothing.

[Edit]

Perhaps I am trying to broaden the views too much. I am constantly trying to expand away from the presented box what it could be connected to. For details people it could be extremely hard to follow where it's heading and for a big picture puzzle guy it's a necessity to include all possibilities first and then narrow them down to find the possible fits for the most sensible explanation. I will try to restrain myself from this at least until the initial discussion has toned down. Perhaps it's time to go back for my solitude again and just occasionally check things out. Things will turn out all right anyways. :)
 
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WildFire2000

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#7
A lot of this ...
Well you can read this when you wake up :)

Hindu mythology allows place for many non-human entities, and of these several are clearly 'hominid' from their descriptions.

Vanara, splitting the word for meaning, comes from 'Vana' + 'Nara' where Vana means forest and nara means man. So literally these were 'forest-people.'

Humans are referred in Sanskrit as 'Manava' which is a word derived from Manu- considered the progenitor of mankind. The word 'man' actually comes from Manu. And Manu's myth is pretty much the same as Noah and the flood myth.

Similarly, there was another dude called Danu, so his descendants are called Danavas, which loosely translates as 'demons' and these guys are clearly 'not us.'

Kimpurusha, this word translates actually to a question- "Is it a man?" I'm speculating that this was a name for 'hominids' or 'creatures' that ancient humans were not even sure whether they were also hominids.

Ancient Hindu mythology splits the gods into Devas and Asuras, where generally speaking Devas are 'good' and Asuras are 'bad.' But curiously enough, ancient Zoroastrianism reverses it. In Zoroastrianism the 'good' god is called Ahura (ancient Iranian uses 'h' where Sanskrit uses 's') and the 'bad' god is called 'Daeva.' Does this hint at an ancient schism between a previously one people?
Actually fits with, going back to Judaeo-Christian ties again, with the Book of Enoch, it just adds another layer of 'truth' to the myths. - Are there far more things tied in there that might shed light? Of course, I'm not discounting it. I personally don't deal with it too much because it isn't anywhere related to my sphere of knowledge, and I don't want to talk about it out of hand or damage it in any way, so please, feel free to enlighten us with what you know.

As far as Enoch/Noah/The Flood, the Man and the Demons and their descendants and all sound familiar to the few scriptures that made it into the modern day Bible, where it says 'As man multiplied upon the earth, the Sons of God saw the Daughters of man were fair, and took wives of them as they pleased'. Enoch goes into more detail, but that's when the' Nephilim came into existence, half-human half-angelic or demonic beings, if you take the term of 'Fallen Angels' as described elsewhere. I just find it interesting how it still, kinda, ties back together maybe? But anyway, please, expound!
 

UnusualBean

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#8
Welcome!

I've actually been writing a post collecting info about the Far East (mostly Japan/Korea), but I'll admit it's not very good :censored:
I'll get around to posting it sooner or later though.
 

Monkwee

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#9
Dude this is awesome! I'm currently reading The Bible in India: Hindoo Origin of Hebrew and Christian Revelation I highly recommend checking it out, that link is the whole book on archive.org.

The aim of the author, as hinted in the title, is to illuminate the Western world about our far superior ancestors who came from India and seeded the Egyptian, Greek and obviously the Romans, however he provides evidence of the interaction with these cultures having occurred far, far before Philip II or his son were alive to even dream of journeying East, he also notes that the 'golden age' of India had ended some 1000 years before the (re)introduction of the eastern and western worlds.

Here are a couple of screenshots that I thought were super interesting, but as you said, whether they are significant is up to the individual.

download.png

names.png

also these are incredible:
rkv2.jpg

abhaneri.jpg
 
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druhyu

druhyu

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#10
Dude this is awesome! I'm currently reading The Bible in India: Hindoo Origin of Hebrew and Christian Revelation I highly recommend checking it out, that link is the whole book on archive.org.
Wow thank you for sharing this link, will definitely read it through. I must confess though, I try to stay away from the whole "our ancestors were far superior" kind of thing. My reading of history tells me that borders and nations as we know them today did not exist then, and I am also inclined to believe that while the Rig Veda was composed within modern India-Pakistan-Afghanistan, the Rig Vedic people's ancestors themselves likely came from somewhere in the steppes.

Further, I think we underestimate the amount of cross-pollination, trade and contact that ancient civilisations had among themselves. Ideas and inspiration were exchanged freely, to the extent that thinking that all great thought and ideas came from India alone is mostly a fallacy. If you read 'Cosmic Serpent' by Jeremy Narby you realise that even in the Amazon the shamans gathered intuitions that can be compared to those in the Upanishads. More than one particular group being first to originate the ideas, I think this reflects the universality of those truths, and that any one at any moment in time can discover them.

On the screenshots you shared, it's a little easy to find Sanskrit cognates everywhere once you go looking. As an example, the author cites 'zu-pitri' as the Sanskrit cognate for Jupiter, but this is way off. Jupiter itself comes from 'jove-pater' which in turn comes from 'zeus-pater.' This much is correct. But the Sanskrit cognate is 'dyaus-pitra' where Dyaus is the cognate for Zeus and Dyaus is considered the father of Indra. In later Hindu mythology, Dyaus and Indra became more or less one entity and Dyaus' own importance was relegated to that of Indra's.

Still, this book seems like a mine to explore for sure. Thank you.
 

Verity

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#11
This is my first post here, and I want to begin by saying that this website is awesome, the community here is great and welcoming and I am happy to be a part of it.

What I want to discuss in this thread is something that I've noticed in all rabbit holes that one finds across the internet- an overwhelming bent towards Judeo-Christian interpretations, Biblical consequences and the like. What I feel about this is that it seems to completely ignore that, from what we know, the ancient epicenter of the world was in the East. Long before Judeo-Christianity there were civilisations in India and China, and what to my mind is the most important text is completely ignored- the Rig Veda.


The Rig Veda is not a historical text, but deep readings of it give so many hints to the possible landscape of the ancient world (maybe 3000 BC and prior). There are amazing cognates and connections that can be made. Here's an example:

If we look at the Rig Vedic lists of tribes, two names we find are 'Kamboja' and 'Kurus.' In later India (around 1000BC) these two names were also the names of "states" located in modern day Afghanistan and western-Iran. Here's the kicker- Kuru leads to Kurush, which leads to Cyrus. Cyrus was the name of the great Persian king, and his own dynasty- the Hakamanishyas- is said to have originated somewhere in modern day Afghanistan and western-Iran. Why do a Persian dynasty and an Indic text remember similar things? What does this mean for ancient human history? Just examining the language of Sanskrit and its cognates around the world leads to so many speculations.


Now this is a very small example, and maybe full analysis will reveal that it's insignificant. But looking through ancient Indic scriptures throws up countless such cases. Another thread to pick up on is chronology. The Hindu worldview maintains that 'existence' is billions of years old, and if I remember correctly the Bhagvad Mahapurana puts the number at somewhere near 14 billion years, which is remarkably close to modern physics' estimates (whether you consider that relevant or not is up to you, I concede). This worldview goes on to say that existence happens in cycles, that things rise and fall and are replaced by new things- and the cycle goes on.


This ties with our suspicions of an ancient and lost history. Hindu texts talk about Vanaras, Danavas, Yakshas, Pretas, Kimpurushas and more- all hominid species and here on this website we talk of giants and the like. Hindu genealogies say that all creatures were born from two sisters- Diti and Aditi. Humans are of Aditi's lineage whereas 'demonic' hominids are of Diti's lineage. Does this reflect an ancient split of lines descended from a single species?


I guess I could go on, but my primary point is that are we missing out on things/working on half knowledge when we use only a Judeo-Christian lens for human history? On my part, the discussions I read here seed so much that I'm now compelled to go back to Indic texts I read in childhood to find connections and things I would have missed then. I certainly need to become at least half as rigourous as you guys are when I conduct said examinations.
I agree with your judeo-christian lens perspective. I think it needs a thorough cleanse and perhaps an accident with a hammer.
Author Savitri Devi (born Maximine Portaz, Greek and French lineage) was so disenchanted with the modern world she abandoned western culture altogether and went to live and study in India- home of the original Indo-Europeans- and our genuine "philosophic" bible, the Bhagavad Gita.
A very important book especially in this age, by all accounts.

When travelling through the Manly P.'s 'Secret Teachings' book I'd come to a chapter and think.. 'How relevant could this possibly be?'
It is a big book, many chapters on seemingly irrelevant topics (on first review).
However, this morning I read a surprisingly relevant chapter on Northern American Red Indian symbology, and the 'relevance' happened with the Islam chapter too last week, as with many chapters before them.
I end up taking copious notes on a freshly described cultures take on an almost exactly shared, universal story.

A pattern has very firmly developed in my mind of how the Abrahamic religions happened, and everything we view being coloured through those/that lens.
It's undoubtably an unpopular view for some, but nevertheless, it's not *necessarily wrong* for that.
It might be wrong in perennial reality but to my mind seems increasingly clear.
*shrugs*

Each religious text, sacred book, divined word from (any monotheistic) god includes a few of the same fundamental stories- ASIDE from the 'birth, death, ascension' ideas, especially if one takes the possible 1,000 years added to our timeline. I've started combining details first and throwing dates out of the window to see if the pattern comes very clear. It does.
(But keeping dates to the forefront, Fomenko comes in handy, as does the post on the added 'j, i or 1'.)
The book/text/gods word was ancient, but lost for a while, then it was written down or translated, and *bam* The One True Religion set in stone, c.thousands of years old.

(Seriously starting to think they were created around 1500AD at the very earliest.)

They each describe a version of the bible's 'Revelation' in different forms.
There are many other similarities but this is the one I zoom in upon.

If the original cataclysm happened as generally thought- around our 1550-1650 AD, give or take a fifty year period, as lightning bolts cracked overhead, volcanos blew and islands moved in and out of sight, tsunamis rushed ashore, towns and cities were buried in ash etc., then one can imagine the general freak-out of those left to deal with the wreckage of their earthly world.

Religion is something people often turn to in times of grief and weakness of spirit. Losing ones habitat, food supply, possibly friends and family would certainly qualify.

Then- introduce Napoleons Comet era- 1811-16 or so.
"Napoleon's Comet" madness hit folks all over the world 150- 200 years or so later following the first catastrophe. Within living memory of that first disaster.

Those main religions would have been ripe for the spreading- ripe for the 'collection of souls'.
Power stations, now useless, were converted to places of worship (warship).

[Those Venetian Phoenicians and the phonetic language they introduced (and pagan gods they subsumed within the christian doctrine) could well have been a serious link to the (Phoenician-sponsored?) 'Sea Peoples of the Late Bronze Age Collapse'.
I wonder if the time line could permit the Late Bronze Age Collapse to be the 15-1600's first of the two recent catastrophes..? The fire and brimstone 'Revelation' tale.. Too far even by this theoretic standard? Dates are meaning less and less tbh.]

"Ye gods we're all gonna diiiiie!!!!.. save y/our soul with this hip new moralistic interpretation of the gods from the One True God.." etc.
It would certainly explain the *extreme* moral piousness of the Victorian age.

Take away the spirit, the history of the spirit, and replace with monotheistic simplicity, corrupt even that to be replaced with nihilism and lack of true history.
Erase that culture!
 
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