Alacanti (Tibi) Dam built in Spain between 1579 and 1594

KorbenDallas

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Here we have another impossible, in my opinion, 16th century achievement. This time it is one of the oldest known dams. The Tibi Dam was built in Spain between 1579 and 1594. Before I go into the description of the dam itself, I wanted to emphasize that we are being fed this non-sense about the technological Renaissance of the 16th century.

I have a long standing issue with the traditional meaning of the word "Renaissance" itself, for the French "Naissance" means birth. And if we are talking about this hypothetical "re-birth", then an obvious question to ask would be what "birth" are we "re-birthing" from? Officially we are being told that the term "Renaissance" means some cultural "advance" from the Middle Ages. I call baloney on this substitution of concepts. If "Renaissance" was an advance to something new, it would not be called "Renaissance", for there was no previous "Naissance". We all know the real meaning to the "RE-something" - recreate, reprint, replay, redo, remake, etc.

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When you google-image "Renaissance" you end up with a whole bunch of paintings, like the one above. I do not know what you see in those paintings, but I see a lot of people who do not belong inside the buildings they are portrayed in. I'm being honest with my own observations, and I do not believe for a second that the depicted society could build the presented structures.

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My opinion on the true meaning of the term "Renaissance" is as follows. A long time ago our civilization was technologically advanced beyond any wildest dreams of today. Then something catastrophic happened, and the world was put into those "Dark Ages". This concept is very easy to substantiate. Just imagine an event of Biblical proportions, like a Great Flood. The majority of people are dead, the infrastructure is destroyed. Peoples' individual skills are compartmentalized. So whoever survived could have been skilled in a certain area, but without certain supporting skills, those individual skills were often worthless. For example, what would a programmer, a plumber, a bank clerk, a philosophy professor, an aircraft controller do for their survival? Food stores do not exist any longer. Electricity is a forgotten legend from the past. Eventually these spread out individuals form groups for survival and food obtaining purposes. With time these groups develop a certain structure, and attempt to return what they had in the past. Obviously whatever knowledge was able to survive would be utilized to better the life of those individuals. That is where we have this "Renaissance" - an attempt to go back to what was available before.

I think our contemporary science substituted the original meaning of the term "Renaissance" to hide that technologically advanced society. Don't ask me why they would need to hide it. This is that million dollar question we all want an answer to.

Let us look at the 16th century tools and equipment we know of today. What we see is a whole bunch of primitive devices, which are totally in line with our acquired understanding of the 16th century. I will tell you more, these tools and equipment look pretty much the same for the 17th and 18th centuries.

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Alacanti aka Tibi Dam
Constructed: 1579-1594
It was built during the years 1579 to 1594, to supply the arid region of Alicante with water for irrigation. Although the name of its constructor is not known with certainty, there are reasons for ascribing this work to Herreras, the famous architect of the Escurial palace.

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Wegmann, Edward (1918). The Design and Construction of Dams. John Wiley & Sons, Incorporated,. pp. 54–55

  • The gorge of Tibi, which is closed by this dam, is formed entirely of hard calcareous rocks, the slopes on either side standing almost perpendicular. Its width is only 30 feet at the bottom, and 190 feet at the crown of the dam.
  • The river Monegre which flows through this gorge discharges on an average about 50 gallons per second.
  • The length of the Alicante reservoir is 5900 feet, its capacity being about 975,000,000 gallons.
  • The dam is built of rubble masonry faced with large cut stones. Its greatest height on the up-stream side is 41 metres (134.5 feet). The plan of the dam is curvilinear, the radius of the up-stream side of the crown being 107.13 metres (351.37 feet).
  • The maximum pressure in the masonry is 11.28 kilos per square centimetre (11.54 tons of 2000 lbs. per square foot).
  • Water is taken from the reservoir by means of a well, 0.8 metre (2.62 feet) in diameter, which is placed in the dam itself. It is parallel with the up-stream face, and at a distance of about 2 feet from it. Fifty-one pairs of openings connect the well with the reservoir; they are o.u metre (0.36 foot) wide by 0.22 metre (0.72 foot) high, and are 0.3 metre (0.98 foot) apart horizontally and 0.41 metre (1.34 feet) vertically. The first pair is 6.97 metres (22.88 feet) below the top of the dam, and the last 2 metres (6.56 feet) above the bottom. By means of this arrangement water can be taken into the well even when much sediment has been deposited in the reservoir.
  • The outlet-well connects at the base of the dam with a horizontal gallery which is parallel with the up-stream face until it reaches the side of the gorge, where it is continued by a small tunnel 0.6 metre (1.97 feet) wide by 1.7 metres (5.58 feet) high. This tunnel curves so as to discharge the water parallel with the axis of the valley. The outlet-gallery is closed at the down-stream face of the dam by a bronze gate, two inches thick, giving an opening when completely raised of 1.77 feet width by 2.30 feet height. Immediately over the gate a small chamber has been cut in the rock, where the gearing for raising the gate is placed. By means of a hand-wheel and gear-wheels engaging a rack, which is attached to the gate, one man can raise or lower the latter with ease, even when the reservoir is full. To prevent incrustations which might obstruct the gate, a small stream of water is always allowed to escape there.
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So, what we have is this Tibi Dam, which was built some 420 years ago. The dam is still operational and doing well from what I can see. I hope everybody understands, that building a dam of this magnitude, which still stands 420 years later, requires a bit more calculations and engineering compared to, let's say, a three story brick building.

Here is an excerpt from what has to be done today to build a similar dam:
  • Building a dam is a complex, multi-step process that requires huge amounts of manpower, raw materials, and investment. Here are the basic steps to building a gravity dam – the most common type of dam that we build. Gravity dams are so named because they are held to the ground by gravity – they weigh a lot, and are typically made from concrete or stone.
  • During the site investigation stage, comprehensive engineering-geological work performed included drilling of bore holes and laboratory, geomechanical and geophysical investigations.
  • Engineers must de-water the river where the dam is meant to be built. This is done by diverting the river through a tunnel that runs around the intended construction zone. Tunnels like this may be lined with concrete and are usually dug out using a combination of drilling and explosives.
  • Dam construction must be started when river levels are low. A small dam called a cofferdam is built upstream of the construction zone to help funnel water into the diversion tunnel. A cofferdam may be built downstream as well, but the overall goal is to keep the construction zone dry so that the main dam can be built. Pumps may be used to remove water that penetrates the cofferdam.
  • Loose rock is removed from the riverbed, and a plinth must be constructed. A plinth is a concrete foundation for the dam that embeds it in the walls and floor of the riverbed/valley. This prevents water from leaking at the edges of the dam.
  • Now, it’s time to build the dam to its desired height. A concave-curved downstream surface for a dam helps it absorb the constant pressure of water that it must endure. Reinforced steel is used for the surfaces of the dam itself, and an enclosure is built. The enclosure is filled with concrete to make it extremely strong and resilient against water flow.
* * * * *

To suggest that this Tibi Dam could have been built by the known society of the 1590s is ridiculous. We can say that the dam exists, therefore it was built, all day long, but look at this society. Did they really possess the knowledge, skills and means to build this Tibi Dam? The dam whose architect is unknown, but rather is "suspected". As we are getting used to, there is an absolute ZERO proof of the construction of this structure, no documents, no nothing, just the dam itself.

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KD Summary:
  • Either there is something we do not know about the true technological abilities of the 16th century, or this dam is a leftover from that pre-Renaissance civilization, the remnants of which we see all over the world.
  • Wikipedia page says it all - Tibi Dam
It would be interesting to get an opinion of a civil engineer on what steps were required back in 1594 to build this dam, and what would have made the construction possible, what infrastructure would need to be in place, what engineering and computation skills would be required.
 

CyborgNinja

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#4
Great article. Excellent intro. This dam is flawlessly designed.
  • Fifty-one pairs of openings connect the well with the reservoir
  • By means of this arrangement water can be taken into the well even when much sediment has been deposited in the reservoir.
  • The outlet-well connects at the base of the dam with a horizontal gallery which is parallel with the up-stream face until it reaches the side of the gorge, where it is continued by a small tunnel. This tunnel curves so as to discharge the water parallel with the axis of the valley.
These features don't come about by accident. These people had an amazing amount of experience. This work is flawless. Just like the pyramids, every design choice is carefully considered. I'd love to see this in person.
 

whitewave

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#5
My question regarding renaissance structures is the same as for pyramidal structures: why are there no "figuring it out, blundering, lesser quality" structures first? Renaissance folk went from a superstitious people believing you could fall off the edge of the world if you sailed far enough to computing complex geometry and spherical trigonometry? Sounds legit. :)
 

Hardy

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#6
I do not know what you see in those paintings, but I see a lot of people who do not belong inside the buildings they are portrayed in. I'm being honest with my own observations, and I do not believe for a second that the depicted society could build the presented structures.
That is for me the Statement of the year, at least for the first half. It's quite easy to understand and once Aware the 'error in the picture' never goes away.
No, the presented people never could build these structures. It's weird, but it seems they do the same like us: Trying to figure out who built this stuff. Are we looking in a Mirror?
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#7
That is for me the Statement of the year, at least for the first half. It's quite easy to understand and once Aware the 'error in the picture' never goes away.
No, the presented people never could build these structures. It's weird, but it seems they do the same like us: Trying to figure out who built this stuff. Are we looking in a Mirror?
Now when you mentioned this, don't you feel the same looking at the people here? What was Giovanni Battista Piranesi trying to say. 17-18th century apocalypse?
 

LordAverage

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#9
dam1.png

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After a bit of digging I don't know if this is too outrageous. Lots of large roman dams and other dams (iran seems popular). But I will admit there is again a weird time stop in the 'middle ages' so to speak. Maybe check out Almansa dam also in Span that was built 200 years prior to Tibi. It's a fair bit smaller but idk how similar it is overall. It definitely sticks out as one of the biggest and boldest projects (maybe besides some roman ones that we can't see today?). I will always agree the lack of records is very weird though, surely these projects had mangement and organisation. Still, digging into it i don't know if i'd say it was impossible at the time in complexity or whatever.
dam4.png

More interesting info about the "short-lived revival of the arch dam concept, forgotten since the disruption of the Roman world, in Iran under the Ilkhans"

Btw that table above in my previous post is titled "Scour outlet systems"
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#10
According to our traditional linear development they were not supposed to even think about engineering feats like that, let alone build them at the quality level allowing the structures to stand 500-1000 years later.

I think this is a fundamental basis for our educational system of brainwashing.

Of course they were built because we can see them. And it does not really matter how many of them are out there. What matters is the technological level of the individuals who accomplished all those mega projects. Are we being told the truth about it?

We can accept that ancient Egyptians chiseled those pyramids with copper tools within ridiculous time frames, or that these guys drilled a couple water bypass caves through the mountain in the 16th century. As well as transported all those stones with horses and such.

Or we can question it. I do, but that’s just me :)

I do not see a little tiny bit of normal in building this structure in the 16th century within the current historical paradigm. It’s just my opinion.
 

LordAverage

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#11
Yeah, I see what you are saying. It definitely goes pretty deep so it can be hard to determine even where in reality to go with your research.

I'm not sure if my dogmatic education allows for the possibility of this engineering back then or not, probably not, they certainly didn't cover this type of information specifically, the most I got out of history education was "romans built some stuff, here's some names and dates to memorize".

Yes, their explanation for how the pyramids were built are laughable at best. I suppose I should view more things as being as silly as the pyramids.

It was just that I found info about other big dams in Iran and in Roman history so I thought it may be an explanation. But if you break it down into smaller pieces "how many people built it" "who ran logistics of the operation" "who funded the project and all of the materials required" "how were the materials transported to the project site" it can start to seem outrageous, especially considering none of this info apparently ever existed, they just winged everything and it all worked out fine (like the moon landings lol? offtopic tho)

Either way If I was gonna look further I'd maybe look into dams in Iran, they may be quite as silly or have some alternative history line up vaguely (history lining up, HAH).
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#12
My education is also dogmatic my friend. So we are just trying to unscrew the same screwed up riddle.

If we put together everything those people allegedly built back then, including star forts, cities and all the other things, we would realise that their population numbers would not support all that. Unless every single person was a construction worker to include women and children. Even then they would not have enough. Then when we look at what they were really doing during those times according to our regular history, we would see that they were most likely fighting a war of some sorts.

I’m just saying that we are facing a major contradiction just about no matter where we look at. I simply stopped justifying all that by saying that they somehow did it.
 

LordAverage

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#13
Agreed, the discrepancies go so far that even if you gave the maximum wiggle room of every variable it doesn't add up still and as we have seen with countless examples now, they are definitely hiding SOMETHING. We'll have to try and narrow down what that something is.

Or every person was a peasant,farmer,parent and construction worker and soldier all at the same time and also really amazingly genius at building and planning and working together to build massive structures. Even then as you said.....
 
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