Year 1834 - Russian submarine rocket launch

KorbenDallas

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#1
I am not quite sure what to make of this interesting piece of information, but apparently Russians managed to launch some rockets from a submerged submarine as far back as 1834. Looks like they hit their targets as well. No clue why somebody would conceive such an idea in 1834. Granted, the sub was not the most complicated one, but launching rockets from a submerged sub in 1834 appears to be a little overboard... considering that we used muzzle-loading cannons as late as 1870s.

Karl Schilder
Schilder_Carl.jpeg
1786 - 1854
Here goes the story, "In Russia, after a number of unrealized projects of underwater vessels, Adjutant-General Karl Shilder offered a new one to the Government. In 1834 the underwater apparatus was made out of boiler iron. The crew of 8 men propelled the sub by swinging the paddles, to manoeuvre they used a vertical rudder. In 1840 the vessel has been finished with a water-jet motor. The sea trials the boat passed well – she reached the maximum depth of 12 metres and had hit all the targets. During one if the further submergences, one of the paddles broke and because of this misfortune further developments were stopped by the decision of the War Ministry. - Source

Google translated missile launch info, "The first successful launch of rockets from under the water was carried out in Russia on August 29, 1834 on the Neva, 40 versts above St. Petersburg. In the presence of Nicholas I from the experimental submarine of the design of K. Shilder, 4-inch incendiary rockets were launched, destroying several stationary ships anchored for training purposes. The missile launch system was developed by the sub-lieutenant of the St. Petersburg missile institute P. P. Kovalevsky, who also controlled the launch of the missiles during tests." - Source in Russian

Schilder_submarine_1.jpg

Schilder_submarine_2.jpg Schilder_submarine_3.jpg Schilder_submarine_4.jpg Schilder_submarine_5.jpg
There is no English Wiki page for his Karl Shilder guy, but there is one in Russian, for those interested in translating it via google translate or whatever.

In general there are a few web sources on this topic out there, but none I really liked. They all have this weird language which appears to be an electronic translation from Russian. If you stumble into a good source, please post a link. I'm interested to read a bit more on this, for things like "one of the paddles broke and because of this misfortune further developments were stopped" ... appear to be a weird reason to stop such a project.

Additionally, I did not specifically search, but what kind of water jet motor could there be in 1840?

Any opinions on this? Normal, not normal for 1834?
 

The Wack

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#2
So they improved their design Adding a water-jet to propel it and a broken oar was the given reason for scrapping the project.... mmm k'ay...

Imagine tearing a building down after installing an elevator 'cause a wooden stair-tread/step lifted....
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#3
Ok, why is there always some weird thing involved? Wiki source.

A pump-jet, hydrojet, or water jet is a marine system that creates a jet of water for propulsion. The Italian inventor Secondo Campini showed the first functioning man-made pump-jet engine in Venice in 1931. However, he never applied for a patent, and since the device suffered from material problems resulting in a short life-span, it never became a commercial product. The first person to achieve that was New Zealand inventor Sir William Hamilton in 1954.

Is this a different water jet that Wikipedia is talking about?

How about this little excerpt from Van Nostrand's Eclectic Engineering Magazine, Volume 28?

water_jet_propellers_1.png

water_jet_propellers.png
 

humanoidlord

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#4
obviously not normal, we din't even have toilet paper at that time, LMAO!

Ok, why is there always some weird thing involved? Wiki source.

A pump-jet, hydrojet, or water jet is a marine system that creates a jet of water for propulsion. The Italian inventor Secondo Campini showed the first functioning man-made pump-jet engine in Venice in 1931. However, he never applied for a patent, and since the device suffered from material problems resulting in a short life-span, it never became a commercial product. The first person to achieve that was New Zealand inventor Sir William Hamilton in 1954.

Is this a different water jet that Wikipedia is talking about?

How about this little excerpt from Van Nostrand's Eclectic Engineering Magazine, Volume 28?


wow
this is a bottom less rabbit hole
 

ISeenItFirst

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#6
Those pictures make no sense. What makes it sink and what makes it float. That's a bigger problem than propulsion, ballast. Then the pressure is next. Then maybe propulsion. How do they launch the rockets? Push button??

Some of the pics show portholes, some don't. Some 1 come shaped anchor, some 2, some none. There is no consistency.
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#7
I know, right? You would imagine there would be way more info on something of this magnitude. The first known underwater rocket launch done in 1834. How much info do we have in reality? Jack.
 

aaww1979

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#8
Lost technology, perhaps the man or men who came up with this died and they didn't pass on the necessary details.
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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#9
There is a buttload of info on this in Russian, pictures, texts, etc. Reverse translating it and then googling produces tons of Russian language sites on the topic. Even this Schilder guy has a wiki page that we do not have in English.

On a separate note, people back then were “inventing” things left and right, so it seems. Some of them did not have technical education, whatever little was supposed ti be avsilable at the time. But they were still inventing devices and equipment. Fascinating.
 
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#10
This is so cool, and not so far out of the ordinary. We had sub's during the civil war just a few years later, and Tesla himself was already a student during this time so real technology was just around the corner. The idea of launching rockets (also common) from concealment under water is something anyone could have come up with, but I'm surprised they were able to make it work so well considering they had to paddle with oars.
 
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