Eleanor Coade: 19th century owner of a Geo-polymer recipe.

CyborgNinja

Well-known member
Messages
232
Likes
908
#1
Eleanor Coade (3 June 1733 – 16 November 1821) was a British businesswoman known for manufacturing Neoclassical statues, architectural decorations and garden ornaments made of Lithodipyra or Coade stone for over 50 years from 1769 until her death. She should not be confused or conflated with her mother, also named Eleanor.

Lithodipyra ("stone fired twice") was a high-quality, durable moulded weather-resistant, ceramic stoneware; statues and decorative features from this still look almost new today. Coade did not invent 'artificial stone', as various inferior quality precursors had been both patented and manufactured over the previous forty years, but she likely perfected both the clay recipe and the firing process. -Wikipedia

recipe.jpg
Artificial stone formula.
The formula used was:
  • 10% of grog
  • 5-10% of crushed flint
  • 5-10% fine quartz
  • 10% crushed soda lime glass
  • 60-70% ball clay from Dorset and Devon
Its manufacture required special skills: extremely careful control and skill in kiln firing, over a period of days. This skill is even more remarkable when the potential variability of kiln temperatures at that time is considered. Coade's factory was the only really successful manufacturer.This mixture was also referred to as "fortified clay" which was then inserted after kneading into a kiln which would fire the material at a temperature of 1,100 °C for over four days.

A number of different variations of the recipe were used, depending on the size and fineness of detail in the work a different size and proportion of grog was used. In many pieces a combination of fine grogged Coade clay was used on the surface for detail, backed up by a more heavily grogged mixture for strength.
The recipe for Coade stone is still used by Coade ltd. Rather than being based on cement (as concrete articles are), it is a ceramic material.

Eleanor Coade was not the creator nor the artist, she came from a wealthy textile family. She worked in more of a financing capacity and left the sculpture up to various notable designers of the time.

Some examples of coade stone sculptures.

South_Bank_Lion.jpg
Coade_Stone,_Portobello.jpg Grave_of_William_Bligh,_Lambeth,_London.jpg Trinity_Church_Square_Statue_of_King_Alfred.jpg
Unicorn_Gate,_Kew_Gardens.jpg

Its important to note that many folks (myself included) assume these were carved from solid stone.

Artificial stone business.
In late 1769, at the age of 36, Eleanor Coade bought Daniel Pincot's struggling artificial stone business at Kings Arms Stairs, Narrow Wall, Lambeth, a site now occupied by the Royal Festival Hall. She took charge and developed this business as "Coade's Artificial Stone Manufactory". Within two years (1771), she sacked Pincot for "representing himself as the chief proprietor". The ceramic stoneware product was marketed as "Coade's Lithodipyra", for the next 50 years.

Pincot's business may have been related to that run nearby by Richard Holt, who had taken out two patents in 1722: one for a kind of liquid metal or stone, and another for making china without the use of clay. There were many start-up 'artificial stone' businesses in the early 18th century, of which only Mrs Coade's succeeded. She manufactured products from ceramic in a process to look like stone, and it proved highly durable. -Wikipedia

Big names in the business.
Coade Artificial Stone Manufactory gained the business of all the eminent Georgian architects, including Robert Adam, James Wyatt, Samuel Wyatt, Sir William Chambers, John Nash, and John Soane.

Maybe old timey England just wasn't that big of a place but the roster of collaborators reads like a whose-who of major architects for the time. Among them...

Robert Adam
Robert-adam.jpg
"In 1754, he left for Rome, spending nearly five years on the continent studying architecture under Charles-Louis Clérisseau and Giovanni Battista Piranesi."
-Wikipedia

A student of our old friend Piranesi. Kinda cool I guess.
All of these guys were working with Geo polymer.

Roman concrete.
RomansConcrete.jpg
A quick mainstream timeline of geopolymer:

300BC -Roman concrete or opus caementicium was invented in the late 3rd century BC when builders added a volcanic dust called pozzolana to mortar made of a mixture of lime or gypsum, brick or rock pieces and water.

500AD and the 1300's -Roman concrete recipe is lost.

1670 -The Canal du Midi was built using concrete.

1722 -Richard Holt, taken out two patents: one for a kind of liquid metal or stone, and another for making china without the use of clay.

1824 -A method for producing Portland cement was developed in England and patented by Joseph Aspdin.

1849 -Reinforced concrete was invented in by Joseph Monier.

Now.

(This timeline is slightly mis-representative as it conflates the history or concrete with ceramic geopolymer but broadly speaking its all the same technology.)

CN summary:
The re-emergence of "liquid stone" during the 1700's seems odd. There were multiple studios around Europe using various recipes. Coade stone wasn't necessarily the only one. It seems to have won out over the others due to financial and marketing reasons. The studios seem more like they were curators of well worn traditions rather than cutting edge R&D groups, that's just my personal impression.

Remembering that the "antiquity" of the Roman and Greek era is just a smoke screen to cover up our stolen history. You can bring that all forward in time to that sweet spot of just prior to 1600 and then the concrete timeline doesn't have this pesky issue of 1000 years of being lost knowledge. Its then a smooth time line going back to 1600's without any interruptions.

I don't know? What are your guys thoughts? Did we ever actually lose the knowledge of geopolymer?

Some of the information for this article was provided by a member on the forum, can't find their original post right now but a big shout out to them. They linked that coade stone is still being used today to repair much of the existing statues around London. link here: Coade Ltd
 

Sirius

Member
Messages
9
Likes
25
#2
I think there is possibly an example of an older and more advanced form of geopolymer. Just possibly though as I have absolutely no proof, this is just theoretical. That example is Ayers Rock in my opinion. If you look at a birds eye view of Australia, its mostly desert, but if you look closely at that desert with satellite view its immediately apparent that desert area had water running all through it, many lakes and rivers etc. Their fractal patterns still remain in the earth but dry as sand now. In the dead middle of what seems an artificially created desert, the likely result of a cataclysmic event, is Ayers Rock and if you look closely at that its pretty sussed. This supposed "Holy" site sits in the dead centre of what is clearly a cataclysm in my eyes and its a huge rock that just does not look like a natural formation. I pretty much think that in that rock is some kind of ancient weapon or weapons facility or something, its what caused Australia to be a desert and someone with advanced technology has encased it in geopolymer to contain it. I think that when this happened Australia was in fact Lemuria and had a land bridge extending from Western Australia up into India. There was supposedly a large scale war between Atlantis and Lemuria that destroyed both civilisations so maybe such an event happened around then? As for Atlantis I have a weird opinion as well, I think its the South Pole, covered in ice and that Lemuria maybe did that somehow. So Lemuria is destroyed by fire and Atlantis by ice kind of thing. Maybe that's why you aren't allowed to go poking around the South Pole? This is all total speculation I can't prove any of it.
 
OP
OP
CyborgNinja

CyborgNinja

Well-known member
Messages
232
Likes
908
#3
that rock is some kind of ancient weapon or weapons facility or something, its what caused Australia to be a desert and someone with advanced technology has encased it in geopolymer to contain it
I agree with your logic. This isn't the first time someone has mentioned that idea to me. Some forms of Geopolymer seem to expand like baked bread. No way Ayres rock is natural.
 

ISeenItFirst

Well-known member
Messages
487
Likes
944
#4
It's all the same stuff. Lime and gypsum and various mixins. I'm not familiar with grog. Overall timeline aside, wrt to Romans, they were likely mixing various types and grades of lime and gypsum with various other fillers for quite a while before they discovered that volcanic sand from one particular place made for a superior product.
 

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
2,970
Likes
9,554
#5
Thank you, very interesting and informative. Makes you wonder why such things are not a part of common knowledge. Than again, we know the answer. Everything was made out of solid rock, because the ancients were dumb and stupid, and enjoyed knocking on chisels as well as spending years polishing rocks with sand.

Indeed, how many artificial stone recipes did they know. Judging by those intricate masterpieces made out of every type of stone we know, it appears that they knew them all. Mind boggling.
 

tupperaware

Well-known member
Messages
91
Likes
258
#6
Here is a modern equivalent to Coade stone called Winterstone Winterstone Sculpting Medium
Users say if its kept wet with a spray bottle it stays workable like stiff putty. Works like clay and sets like stone. Similar to white cement so won't have any plastic components - all natural. It might weather very well but apparently they don't know if its good for hundreds of years quite yet.

Winterstone rendered to art

Coade is clay based and Winterstone cement based.

This kind of suggests that something like Winterstone might have allowed "easy" construction of geopolymer types of walls, fortresses and buildings simply by casting into say 50 lb soft bricks and building up the angular shapes needed right on the wall then ramming and smoothing it over. A simple spray of water on surfaces probably glued the blocks together.
 

BStankman

Well-known member
Messages
419
Likes
1,733
#7
I agree with your logic. This isn't the first time someone has mentioned that idea to me. Some forms of Geopolymer seem to expand like baked bread. No way Ayres rock is natural.
This kind of suggests that something like Winterstone might have allowed "easy" construction of geopolymer types of walls, fortresses and buildings simply by casting into say 50 lb soft bricks and building up the angular shapes needed right on the wall then ramming and smoothing it over. A simple spray of water on surfaces probably glued the blocks together.
Yes, and yes.
Not sure how old this wall really is. Even if just 150 years, it still proves better than the concrete we use today.
Turn off the sound and look with your eyes. Trowels, not chisels.


I can understand the artists. They keep the secret and can charge more for their work.
But for construction? Someone wants us busy with restoration and rebuilding.
 
OP
OP
CyborgNinja

CyborgNinja

Well-known member
Messages
232
Likes
908
#8
A simple spray of water on surfaces probably glued the blocks together
Kinda like those stone walls in Peru that fit so closely together.
ancients were dumb and stupid, and enjoyed knocking on chisels as well as spending years polishing rocks with sand.
Yes must never forget that all who came before us were brain dead. (Sarcasm)
Trowels, not chisels.
The share number of things we find made from stone means this must have been an easy process for them.
 

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
477
Likes
1,910
#9
This thread is golden! it answers pretty much all of my questions about, well a whole myriad of things, big "puffy" stone blocks fitting together perfectly, to good to be true statues. I have thought for a long time geopolymers were an answer, but I never ran across any of the information about Coade or Winterstone. Our ancestors undoubtedly had geopolymers for many "stone" types, there would have been "industrial grade" for the massive stone structures and marble and granite for finer works
Sirius said:
that rock is some kind of ancient weapon or weapons facility or something, its what caused Australia to be a desert and someone with advanced technology has encased it in geopolymer to contain it

I agree with your logic. This isn't the first time someone has mentioned that idea to me. Some forms of Geopolymer seem to expand like baked bread. No way Ayres rock is natural.
Don't "normies" ever questions anything?! Ayers rock in so not natural.

Ayers rock.jpg uluru_caves.jpg

Yep, geopolymers answer many questions .

anorthositic-gneiss-object.jpg
Geopolymer House Blog a really interesting blog.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
CyborgNinja

CyborgNinja

Well-known member
Messages
232
Likes
908
#10
Turn off the sound and look with your eyes. Trowels, not chisels.
Okay I just finished watching that vid. It's only recently in the past two or three years that the community has come to the realization that this is the work of geopolymer and not traditional stone work.

This is a huge break through. I'm excited to see how this progresses over the next few years.

This is why stolenhistory.org is so important to me, this is a place where we can really bounce ideas off of one another.
 

trismegistus

Well-known member
Messages
155
Likes
777
#11
I just watched a video on Newearth's YT channel about this very topic - - this is another one of those topics where the mainstream explanation is not as simple and elegant as the "alternative" solution. Basically the mainstream explanation is saying "suspend your disbelief, just because your stupid human brain thinks that this doesn't look like it was built with crude stone tools doesn't mean that they weren't!"

The fact of the matter is there are too many questions about statues like this, as well as "natural rock formations" that defy mainstream explanation. Why do some of these rock formations look like they've been risen like yeast in a grid pattern? Mainstream says lava flows, even though they don't resemble actual evidence of lava flows. They were either spawned naturally, as stone has "living" properties, or there was a civilization who figured out the formula to grow rocks as they saw fit.

Using this logic, that knowledge could have distilled down over the years to let people create works of art like this using similar methods and techniques.

See, for example, Sansevero Chapel. At the risk of derailing this thread too much, I will link to but not discuss the extremely creepy Adam and Eve displays found in said chapel.

Cappella-Sansevero-42886.jpg 300px-Cristo_velato.jpg sansevero1.jpg Cappella-Sansevero-42887.jpg
IW_Antonio-Corradini_LaPudicizia_04.jpg
 

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
477
Likes
1,910
#12
Oh boy howdy, I've looked at those statues many times. Geopolymer for sure. and if they didn't have laser printing of some sort, they could have sculpted the statues first in wax and then something like the fishing net, they could have hardened it and the cloth. Heck my old grandma used to make her doilies stiff as boards with a sugar water solution. You know, until they can get their liquid geopolymer poured over the said hardened fabric.

Even though they are so realistic, I don't believe they were using dead bodies. And you could make a full body mold, but I think it would be hard on a person and if done in stages, would the result be so seamless ? I think wax statues as the initial work of art is at least a possibility. Then from there they could make a mold or just a one off and melt the wax for another project.
 

BStankman

Well-known member
Messages
419
Likes
1,733
#13
Oh boy howdy, I've looked at those statues many times. Geopolymer for sure. and if they didn't have laser printing of some sort, they could have sculpted the statues first in wax and then something like the fishing net, they could have hardened it and the cloth. Heck my old grandma used to make her doilies stiff as boards with a sugar water solution. You know, until they can get their liquid geopolymer poured over the said hardened fabric.

Even though they are so realistic, I don't believe they were using dead bodies. And you could make a full body mold, but I think it would be hard on a person and if done in stages, would the result be so seamless ? I think wax statues as the initial work of art is at least a possibility. Then from there they could make a mold or just a one off and melt the wax for another project.
Cappella-Sansevero-42886-e1492626059933.jpg

Create Cement Lace Using Doilies and Other Crochet Items - Handy DIY

doily.jpg cloth.jpg
 

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
477
Likes
1,910
#14
Oh brilliant BS. Here is the sugar starch recipe.

DIRECTIONS
  1. Put sugar and water in a small pan. Over low heat cook and stir mixture constantly until it becomes clear. DO NOT LET IT BOIL! When mixture is completely clear remove from heat and cool.
  2. Next dampen the crocheted item in fresh water and pat out excess moisture with a towel. Then dip it in the cooled sugar mixture and gently squeeze out any excess liquid.
  3. If it's a doily simple lay it flat and reshape and let it dry. For a basket, take a bowl that is the desired size, turn it upside down and place the crocheted basket over the bowl to dry.
sugar water.jpg

I think we have come up with 2 good ideas to help explain how such real looking "sculpted" fabric, cloth or rope/netting could have been accomplished.
The artist would have to drape the still pliable starched/cement, cloth/clothing where the want it over the wax statue they made and then make a mold from that and then cast your geopolymer statue.
 
Last edited:

Silvanus777

Well-known member
Messages
69
Likes
445
#15
With regard to current events:

Vandalism seems to be, once again, an unlikely boon for us hidden/alternative history researchers (as previously seen with "ISIS" fighters destroying "ancient" art and statues only to expose rebar and stuff), so here's some winter greetings from France's yellow vests: The defaced "statue" of quite masculine looking female national icon of France, Marianne, on the Paris Arc de Triomphe (Time Article on the incident here).

Marianne Statue Broken 2018.jpg

Who had, like myself, previously assumed these figures on the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and elsewhere to be solid, carved stone statues?? Show of hands everyone!? :LOL:

And they even put this photo on some major magazine cover (The Economist, Time Magazine or whatever - saw that on YT, sadly couldn't find it via google search :confused:), as if being about their usual business of revealing some truths here and there for those with "eyes to see" these things, taunting us with it! Haha, somewhat amusing, I must say.
 

tupperaware

Well-known member
Messages
91
Likes
258
#17
So how was all the powder for the geopolymer mix ground down to very fine powder then used to mix up maybe 50 lb bricks ? Has a rock to rock flour mill ever been discovered? My guess is that "rock flour" might be a required part of the aggregate mix to make the ancient or not so ancient kind of geopolymer. Here and there large deposits can be found Glacial Lake Missoula, Rock Flour, Glacial Flour.

After the glaciers receded thousands of years ago there would have been millions of tons of the powder available and in places like the Big Draw (link above) you had all the ingredients together - sand, gravel and rock flour. What's missing is that secret ingredient that binds those 3 together but that probably was discovered by chance.

Potential of Rock Flour for Use As Fill Material in Reinforced Soil Structures - Rock flour used today for making high quality cement.
 
Messages
17
Likes
90
#19
With regard to current events:

Vandalism seems to be, once again, an unlikely boon for us hidden/alternative history researchers (as previously seen with "ISIS" fighters destroying "ancient" art and statues only to expose rebar and stuff), so here's some winter greetings from France's yellow vests: The defaced "statue" of quite masculine looking female national icon of France, Marianne, on the Paris Arc de Triomphe (Time Article on the incident here).


Who had, like myself, previously assumed these figures on the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and elsewhere to be solid, carved stone statues?? Show of hands everyone!? :LOL:

And they even put this photo on some major magazine cover (The Economist, Time Magazine or whatever - saw that on YT, sadly couldn't find it via google search :confused:), as if being about their usual business of revealing some truths here and there for those with "eyes to see" these things, taunting us with it! Haha, somewhat amusing, I must say.
I saw this photo in college last year. I don't know much about casting, but it seems to me that making a cast to produce this statue would still require extreme skills beyond what I have ever seen. The big advantage I guess would be the original carving would be of some softer material like a soapstone.
I would like to hear what a sculptor has to say about this image.
 
OP
OP
CyborgNinja

CyborgNinja

Well-known member
Messages
232
Likes
908
#20
Who had, like myself, previously assumed these figures on the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and elsewhere to be solid, carved stone statues?? Show of hands everyone!?
This was a known plaster cast done by the sculptor. His actual sculpture is on the outside of the arch while this piece is inside among other examples.
 
Top