The State of Georgia #1: Atlanta or Decatur, that is the question.

For these past few days I've been writing an article about certain inconsistencies pertaining to the state of Georgia. The piece got so big, I had to break it into individual segments.
  • It does appear that we have some circumstantial evidence suggesting that many pre-existing cities and towns were incorporated into our contemporary narrative.
Today, let's talk about the city of Atlanta.

1. The State of Georgia
Before we can get to the actual city of Atlanta, we have to look at a few things pertaining to the state it is located in. There are a few interesting moments there, and those should not be ignored. Here is a short synopsis of how the state of Georgia came to be. The PTB tell us that before settlement by Europeans, Georgia was inhabited by Native American tribes for thousands of years.
  • A modest Spanish presence was established in the late 16th century, mostly centered on Catholic mission work.
  • The Spanish were largely gone by the early 18th century, though they remained in nearby Florida, and their presence ultimately left little impact on what would become Georgia.
  • Most Spanish place names in Georgia date from the 19th century, not from the age of colonization.
English settlers arrived in the 1730s, led by James Oglethorpe. So, what cities or towns could become abandoned by 1878. Methinks only those that were established between 1730s and 1861 (the Civil War started). That would be a time span of about 130 years, at the most.
James Oglethorpe
James Edward Oglethorpe was a British soldier, Member of Parliament, and philanthropist, as well as the founder of the colony of Georgia. As a social reformer, he hoped to resettle Britain's worthy poor in the New World, initially focusing on those in debtors' prisons.
  • Born to a prominent British family, Othethorpe left college in England and a British Army commission to travel to France, where he attended a military academy before fighting under Prince Eugene of Savoy in the Austro-Turkish War.
  • His early years were relatively undistinguished until 1729, when Oglethorpe was made chair of the Gaols Committee that investigated British debtors' prisons.
1696-1785
oglethorpe.jpg

Source + Plate Armor
  • In June 1732, Oglethorpe, Perceval, Martyn, and a group of other prominent Britons petitioned for and were eventually granted a royal charter to establish the colony of Georgia between the Savannah River and the Altamaha River.
  • After being granted a charter, Oglethorpe sailed to Georgia in November 1732.
  • In November 1732 a total of 114 men, women, and children gathered at Gravesend on the River Thames to set sail for the new colony of Georgia.
    • Oglethorpe understood that Georgia's charter prohibited him from holding office, owning land, or receiving a salary in the new colony, yet he gave up the comforts of home to accompany the first boatload of Georgia settlers.
    • After several delays they boarded the Anne for a two-month journey across the Atlantic.
  • Following a brief visit in Charleston, the colonists proceeded to Port Royal, South Carolina's southernmost outpost.
    • While they rested, Oglethorpe and a band of Carolina Rangers went ahead to look for a place to settle.
    • Some seventeen miles inland from the mouth of the Savannah River, they found Yamacraw Bluff overlooking the south bank of the river.
    • Oglethorpe immediately struck up a friendship with the Yamacraw chief, Tomochichi, thus beginning a long and close relationship between the two.
  • On February 12, 1733, Oglethorpe returned to Yamacraw Bluff with the Georgia colonists.
  • James Oglethorpe
  • James Oglethorpe (1696-1785)
KD: The colony was established in 1733, and became a state in 1788.
  • Isn't it amazing that the father of the future state of Georgia was a knight in shining armor?
Oglethorpe Plan
This is the point, where the true researcher's BS meter should be going off the charts. The Oglethorpe plan is an urban planning idea that was most famously used when Savannah was founded in the 18th century.
  • The plan uses a distinctive street network with repeating squares of residential blocks, commercial blocks, and small green parks to create integrated, walkable neighborhoods.
  • The multifaceted plan sought to achieve several goals through interrelated policy and design elements, including the spacing of towns, the layout of towns and eventually their surrounding counties, equitable allocation of land, and limits to growth to preserve a sustainable agrarian economy.
This article is not about the city of Savannah, but its plan is the epiphany of what we are dealing with.

Savannah_cityplan_1818.jpg

As you can see, there is a very high probability that the PTB introduced this "Oglethorpe Plan" to explain the pre-existing advanced urban planning. The one that "colonists" had nothing to do with.
  • Looks like in this particular case, Oglethorpe could not help himself, and developed a full blown Star City.
Let's see how dumb we collectively are, for it does take a special kind of stupid to believe that Indians would just pack up and leave, so that Oglethorpe could rearrange their “village” into the above “Oglethorpe plan”.
  • On February 12, 1733, Oglethorpe led 114 settlers to their arrival at Yamacraw Bluff, in what is now the city of Savannah, and established a camp with the help of a local elderly Creek chief, Tomochichi.
  • A Yamacraw Indian village had occupied the site, but Oglethorpe arranged for the Indians to move.
    • Today, Georgia has 100 miles of coastline. Yet, Oglethorpe had to displace Indians in one specific spot.
    • Why?
KD: But... this article is about the city of Atlanta!

Georgia Census Data
We do appear to have some population count related shenanigans. These, probably, exist for a reason. The United States Census of 1790 was the first census of the whole United States. It recorded the population of the United States as of Census Day, August 2, 1790.
  • Although the Census was proved statistically factual, based on data collected, the records for several states (including Delaware, Georgia, New Jersey, and Virginia) were lost sometime between 1790 and 1830.
  • Almost one third of the original census data have been lost or destroyed since their original documentation.
    • These include some 1790 data from: Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, and Vermont.
    • However, the validity and existence of most of these data can be confirmed in many secondary sources pertaining to the first census.
You see what they did there? This effectively covers the entire population of the United States in 1790. In other words, we have no idea how many people lived in the United States at the time.

Naturally, here is what the PTB do want us to know for the state of Georgia in 1790:
  • Total Population: 82,548 people
    • Free White Males: 27,147
    • Free White Females: 25,739
    • All Other Free Persons: 398
    • Enslaved Persons: 29,264
Below is the year by year break down of the population totals for the Colony and State of Georgia. 1740-1780 stats provided by the relevant wiki page are slightly different, but their visual resemblance makes me think that the PTB is still adjusting things.
One additional, and in my opinion relevant piece of information is this:
  • 1860: In terms of geographical distribution, nearly 60 percent of the populace lived in the Black Belt region, a broad swath running diagonally through the state's center from South Carolina toward the southwest along the Alabama and Florida line.
bb.jpg

KD: I think these numbers are important when we are dealing with the achievements of the "early settlers". We do need to remember that the above numbers include women, children, and elderly, as well as free and enslaved individuals. I am not sure whether indigenous people were included in these stats.

Georgia Counties
I'll be honest, I did not count how many counties we have in the below 1859 map. I visually compared to our contemporary county map of Georgia, and they appear to look the same. Here is my question:
  • What the hell did they need 159 counties for back then? Did they simply inherit the break down?
1859 Georgia Map
bb-1861.jpg

I wanted to see what the map progression of the establishment of Georgia counties looked like. Eventually, I stumbled into the below 1824 map.
1824: Georgia and Alabama
atl-dec-6.jpg

We have this "no man's land" between the states of Georgia and Alabama. The land was allegedly occupied by the Muscogee Indians. As the narrative goes, the Indian's were relocated:
As I was continuing with my map related research, I came across the below 1827 Map of Georgia.
1827 Georgia Map
ga-13.jpg

At the time, I did not think much of it, but these "C.H." were sticking out like red flags. The explanation is in the above 1824 map, as well as further down the article.

2. The City of Atlanta
As with anything else, to notice the BS, we have to know what the narrative says. The history of the founding of Atlanta appears to be simple and straight forward. But as we often see, there are these miniscule tactical maneuvers meant to convolute our clear understanding of things. We have this simple question:
  • When was the city of Atlanta founded?
And we get this for an answer. The history of Atlanta dates back to 1836, when Georgia decided to build a railroad to the U.S. Midwest and a location was chosen to be the line's terminus.
  • The stake marking the founding of "Terminus" was driven into the ground in 1837.
  • In 1839, homes and a store were built there and the settlement grew.
  • By 1842, the town had six buildings and 30 residents and was renamed Marthasville to honor Governor Wilson Lumpkin's daughter Martha.
  • Between 1845 and 1854, rail lines arrived from four different directions, and the rapidly growing town quickly became the rail hub for the entire Southern United States.
  • Later, J. Edgar Thomson, Chief Engineer of the Georgia Railroad, suggested the town be renamed Atlanta.
  • The residents approved, and the town was incorporated as Atlanta on December 29, 1847.
  • In 1864, Union William Sherman's troops set on fire and destroyed the city's assets and buildings, save churches and hospitals.
  • Population of Atlanta in 1842: 30 people - source
  • Population of Atlanta in 1850: 2,572 people - source
  • Population of Atlanta in 1860: 9,554 people - source
  • Population of Atlanta in 1870: 21,789 people - source
Question: So... when was the city of Atlanta founded, for here is your city name progression.
  • 1837 - Terminus
  • 1843 - Marthasville
  • 1847 - Atlanta
KD: In 1837, a stake was driven into the ground. In 1839, first homes and a store were built. By 1842, the town had 6 buildings and 30 residents.
Atlanta in 1864
- a brand new city -
1864-atlanta.jpg

1864-atlanta1.jpg 1864-atlanta4.jpg 1864-atlanta2.jpg 1864-atlanta3.jpg 1864-atlanta6.jpg 1864-atlanta7.jpg 1864-atlanta5.jpg 1864-atlanta8.jpg 1864-atlanta9.jpg 1864-atlanta10.jpg 1864-atlanta11.jpg 1864-atlanta12.jpg
I do not know how much credibility can be given to the below images of 1864 Atlanta. Read on, and judge for yourselves:
  • Wilbur Kurtz (1882-1967) was an avid student of local history.
  • He painted scenes of early Atlanta that remain notable for the historical research that went into their creation.
    • Wilbur Kurtz's depiction of 1864 Atlanta guided set design for filming "Gone With the Wind" in 1939.
atlanta1864.jpg

I think the image above is a black and white photo of the painting. Here is a view of a photographic reproduction of an original oil painting by Wilbur Kurtz, Sr. of a bird's eye view of Atlanta, Georgia in 1864.
atl1864-1.jpg

KD: Anyone else has doubts about the age of the presented city of (allegedly) Atlanta?

The Seal of Atlanta
The City Seal of Atlanta depicts the mythological bird, the Phoenix, who is cyclically reborn from ashes. This symbolizes the rebuilding of the city after it was burned and destroyed by war. The date depicted, 1847, is the date Atlanta was first incorporated. The date 1865 signifies the end of the Civil War and the beginning of the new Atlanta.
  • Resurgens is Latin for "rising again."
  • Source
Seal_of_Atlanta.jpg

KD: Isn't it interesting that it was the date of the name change and incorporation, that was picked for the seal? In 1847, the town had already existed for 10 years. Then we have this phoenix bird. We do not think about certain things, but whether we do or not, these things exist.
  • In ancient Greek folklore, a phoenix is a long-lived bird that cyclically regenerates or is otherwise born again.
  • Associated with the sun, a phoenix obtains new life by arising from the ashes of its predecessor.
  • Some legends say it dies in a show of flames and combustion, others that it simply dies and decomposes before being born again.
And while the debate is ongoing, I still find it interesting that the ancient Greek theme was picked over the Christian one.

jesus-risen.jpg

I digress. The main issue to address here pertains to the event, after which the resurrection was required. We know that the town was not established in 1847, it (allegedly) happened in 1837.
  • What date was the date of resurrection, 1847 or 1865?
    • And if indeed it was 1847, what were they resurrecting from?
Counties: Fulton and DeKalb
Before there were two, there was one. To a certain degree, doing some research pertaining to the area represented by these two counties led me down a major rabbit hole.
  • The area of DeKalb County was acquired by the state of Georgia as a result of the 1821 Treaty of Indian Springs with a faction of the Muscogee (Creek).
  • DeKalb County, formed in 1822 from Henry, Gwinnett and Fayette counties, took its name from Baron Johann de Kalb (1721-1780), a Bavarian-born former officer in the French Army, who fought for the Continental Army in the American Revolutionary War.
1840
dekalb-1.jpg

Map Source
  • Fulton County was created in 1853 from the western half of DeKalb County. It was named in honor of Hamilton Fulton, a railroad official who acted as surveyor for the Western and Atlantic Railroad and also as chief engineer of the state.
1859
dekalb-2.jpg

Map Source

Atlanta vs. Decatur
You can obviously see the shifting shenanigans of the town of Decatur on the above maps. You can also see the city of Atlanta (on the 1859 map) being positioned at the approximate location of where Decature was on the 1840 map. To put some of the distances separating Decatur from Atlanta in perspective, let's take a look at our today's maps.
  • As you can see in the map below, today's Decatur is located about 6 miles east of downtown Atlanta, and about 1.5 miles east of the city limits.
atl-dec.jpg

atl-dec2.jpg

In other words, distances are not that great. Now... I do think that we could be dealing with a rather large pre-existing city. In 1840 they called it Decatur. Later on certain re-adjustments of the narrative were made. The larger portion of Decatur was re-named to Atlanta, and the smaller portion on the right is still known today as the town of Decatur.

1840 vs. 1859
dekalb-17.jpg

Source - Source

Which single star-denoted location could represents Atlanta on the map? Any single one could. At the same time all the stars represent Atlanta.

atl-dec-1-1-1.jpg

Before I bore you with additional map research, let's see what the narrative tells us about the town of Decatur.

Decatur
Prior to European settlement, the Decatur area was largely forested. A remnant of old-growth forest near Decatur is preserved as Fernbank Forest. Decatur was established at the intersection of two Native American trails.
  • A site for the DeKalb County courthouse was designated in 1822 in what would become downtown Decatur.
  • The city of Decatur was incorporated on December 10, 1823.
  • Decatur
By the way, here comes our explanation for the above "C.H." designation we saw on the above 1827 map.
  • C.H. - Court House
The map published in 1824 also suggests that we indeed have courthouse designations marked on the map of 1827.

1824
dekalb-decatur-ch.jpg

I do not think they were marking future courthouses. I think those were pre-existing cities and towns getting marked. Whether such towns/cities were conquered or found abandoned, that I have no opinion on.

1827
atl-dec-51.jpg

Question: What kind of "natural" settlements eventually becoming towns are we talking about here?
  • Their biggest city in 1830 was Savannah, with barely 7,000 citizens.
    • Yet, they were occupying territories and marking spots for future courthouses of yet non-existing towns?
  • To me it sounds like either a conquest, or re-discovery.
Historic DeKalb Courthouse
Ok, I could not help it, for the load of BS presented to us is also a set of instructions on how to properly introduce a pre-existing building
  • DeKalb’s first courthouse was located in Decatur. It was built in 1823 it was described as a “crude wooden structure.”
first-courthouse-replica-diorama.jpg

Source
  • The next courthouse was built in 1829, and was located in the center of the square.
    • On January 9, 1842, the building caught fire in the middle of the night, destroying nearly all the county’s records.
    • Though the cause of the fire remains a mystery, many believe it was intentionally started by careless card players.
  • In 1847, a new brick courthouse was constructed.
    • It was a plain two-story red-brick building in the Greek Revival style, and had a temple front configuration supported by massive square columns.
    • Although the courthouse survived the “Battle of Decatur” on July 22, 1864, it was demolished in 1898 to make room for a new courthouse.
  • In 1898, a Neoclassical style courthouse replaced the modest brick building.
    • Made from granite, the new structure had many new amenities, including a special room for ladies, complete with toilets.
    • Images from the early 1900s show how rural the courthouse was - it is in the middle of a wide grassy lawn, atop one of the area’s highest points, and you cannot yet see any stores or businesses.
    • In 1908, a Confederate monument was erected in front of the building.
dec-ch.jpg

Source
  • At 5:20 a.m. in September 1916, firefighters were once again called to save the county courthouse.
    • Although the interior of the building was destroyed, fireproof safes protected most of the county’s records.
    • The thick Lithonia granite walls withstood the flames, and they provide the foundation for the courthouse that is now the home of the DeKalb History Center.
    • The cause of the fire is thought to be a smoldering cigar butt dropped by a crowd member waiting for election results the previous night.
  • After the fire, the county retained what they could from the exterior of the building.
    • The cupola was not rebuilt after the fire, but the two historic clocks were placed in the remaining porticoes.
    • Completed in 1918, the new courthouse featured an addition of two new wings and an interior clad with Alabama marble.
  • Source
Note: Compare the above story to this one. How many imaginary structures did they have to recycle to introduce a very old structure as something much newer? If you really wanna see this system getting abused, please read up on some of the buildings in Italy.

Maps: Decatur vs. Atlanta
For our map research, it is important to remember what led to the city of Atlanta getting established. As we know, the PTB is claiming the following as the reason for the founding of the city of Atlanta:
  • In 1836, the Georgia General Assembly voted to build the Western and Atlantic Railroad to provide a link between the port of Savannah and the Midwest.
    • A U.S. Army engineer, Colonel Stephen Harriman Long, was asked to recommend the location where the Western and Atlantic line would terminate.
    • He surveyed various possible routes, then in the autumn of 1837, drove a stake into the ground between what are now Forsyth Street and Andrew Young International Boulevard, about three or four blocks northwest of today's Five Points.
    • The zero milepost was later placed to mark that spot.
    • In 1842, the planned terminus location was moved, four blocks southeast (two to three blocks southeast of Five Points), to what would become State Square.
    • At this location, the zero milepost can now be found, adjacent to the southern entrance of Underground Atlanta.
Important: Between 1845 and 1854, rail lines arrived from four different directions, and the rapidly growing town quickly became the rail hub for the entire Southern United States.

Below we can see a portion of this 1854 Map of Georgia. There is our Atlanta, with rail lines arriving from four different directions. It appears that set goals were achieved, because:
  • We can clearly see a rail line going from Atlanta towards Marietta, and from there continuing to the Midwest.
1854
atl-x-1.jpg

Source

And of course, the past and shenanigans go hand in hand. Here is a slightly different visual of the same area, but dated with 1853.

1853
atl-x-2.jpg

Source
As we remember, the Georgia General Assembly needed a railroad hub to connect Savannah with the Midwest. For that, they drove a stake into the ground in the middle of nowhere. That middle of nowhere, with not a single building in the area in the beginning of the project, had the following names:
  • 1837-1843: Terminus
  • 1843-1847: Marthasville
  • 1847-present: Atlanta
Now let's see where they really pulled the rail line to. Additionally, try to spot two predecessors of the city of Atlanta.
  • Terminus or Marthasville
1838
atl-dec-3.jpg

Source

1839
atl-dec-4.jpg

Source

1840
atl-dec-8.jpg

Source

1842
atl12.jpg

Source

1845
atl-dec-5.jpg

Source

1846
atl-dec-6.jpg

Source

1848
atl-dec-9.jpg

Source

Question: So, how many times did we see Terminus or Marthasville? At the same time we've seen plenty of Decatur.
  • Let's see how many times this, once important city of Decatur is being mentioned in the history of Atlanta.
Neither here, nor here do we have a single meaningful mention of this Decatur city. As a matter of fact, the narrative only mentions it once.
  • Dekalb County was created in 1822, from portions of Henry, Fayette, and Gwinnett Counties, and Decatur was created as its county seat the following year.
Now let's fast forwards a few years. What do we have in the same area?
  • In 1901, the all important Atlanta and Decatur occupy the space.
1901
atl-dec-10.jpg

Source
Today most of us do not even know that this Decatur even exists.
  • Decatur is a city which is part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
  • With a population of 19,335 in the 2010 census, the municipality is sometimes assumed to be larger since multiple ZIP Codes in unincorporated DeKalb County bear Decatur as the address.
atl-dec-today.jpg


KD: I believe there was a reason why patent offices, archives and census data storage buildings used to burn on a regular basis. Texts are easy to forge. One would think that maps were not that different. But... what do we know? Naturally, I have no idea why these maps survived.

Here's my opinion on the Atlanta-Decatur issue:
  • There was a pretty large pre-existing city in the area we know today as Atlanta Metropolitan Area.
  • We do not know the original name of this metropolis. May be it was the very same "Atlanta", hence the phoenix seal, who knows?
  • The first repopulated area of this metropolis was originally named Decatur.
  • In 1847, it was decided to name the larger western portion of the metropolis Atlanta.
  • The name of Decatur was preserved by assigning it to a much smaller area on the east side of the metropolis.
  • There were many other pre-existing cities and towns in the area known today as the state of Georgia
    • As they were conquered or discovered by the invaders or finders, they were marked with "C.H".
  • Some cities were so big, that they ended up being split into multiple smaller towns.
  • I think the allegedly built railroads were pre-existing railroads getting either repaired, or unearthed.
Stay tuned. There are some truly bizarre things (pertaining to the state of Georgia) I happened to stumble into. I'll be posting more related articles as time permits.
 

Tarheel

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Excellent post KD. And I am chomping at the bits for part 2, 3, 4 and so on.

This might be a tad off the OP topic, but operating under the premise that the historical records of Georgia cities and previous civilizations is skewed, I wanted to share. I was raised in Albany, Georgia and grew up swimming in one of the "Seven Natural Wonders of Georgia" Radium Springs in southwest Georgia. Sourcing from an extensive underwater cavern system, Georgia's largest natural spring with a consistent 68 degree temperature, flows at a rate of 70,000 gallons per minute and empties into the above mentioned Flint River.
map_of_radium_springs_ga.jpg
The official narrative goes as the following: The spring was well known to both prehistoric and later Creek Indians, who lived and hunted in the surrounding areas while fishing in the crystal clear water. The men of Henando de Soto's expedition mentioned passing a similar South Georgia spring in 1540 and other early accounts described how Indians paddled their canoes on such waters. By the time English settlers arrived in South Carolina and Georgia, the area around Albany was controlled by the lower Creeks and early accounts mentioned the magnificent spring. But long before the arrival of the English settlers, the Creek Indians thought the crystal-blue water had special powers to cure sickness and was a special ceremonial site. They called the springs "Skywater", having believed the sacred water had dropped from the sky.

Skywater_plaque.jpg

Come the 1830s, it was encroached by the white man and renamed as Blue Springs for attracting local settlers as a popular swimming hole. By the early 20th century, its prominence as a commercial recreational site was ensured and developers constructed a restaurant and cottages to meet the needs of local day trippers. In 1925, the water was tested to show trace amounts of radium, hence the renaming. With hopes to capitalize on northerners traveling to Florida for the winter season and who believed that swimming in the spring had positive health benefits due to the traces of radium, The Radium Springs Casino was built overlooking the springs in the 1927 and quickly became a popular spa and resort for the well-to-do. At the peak of the site's popularity, a golf course was developed nearby and attracted many notable people of the day.
The casino was damaged and rebuilt two times, first being a fire in 1982 and second by flooding in 1994, before being beyond repair in the flood of 1998. Today, a courtyard stands on the site of the casino and features historical signage on modern narrative of Radium Springs. The stonework surrounding the springs and pool is one of the most significant remaining features of the site, thought they are beginning to crumble and in need or restoration. Known as Radium Springs Garden today, it is operated by the City of Albany and offers a greenspace and restricts fishing and swimming.

Today.jpg

Tarheel for KD: I have been wanting to request your research skills for some time now, in hopes of unearthing a little more background and history on this site. Though there might not be any misdirection or covering up, I have always loved this site and wanted to share it with you and hope to learn a little bit more. Here's to hoping you have a few spare minutes to do some delving for me. Thank you kindly.

Links:
 
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  • Aiahavezred

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    Great article. I the house im living in has some of the same issues(starting) as those in the "25 yr old" photos. This house is all wood construction and is 98 yrs old.
     

    Scott Freeman

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    What the hell did they need 159 counties for back then? Did they simply inherit the break down
    It's my understanding that originally the counties were laid out with a county seat in the middle such that each land owner (elector) could travel to it by wagon in one or two day's travel to do the business of the county. Electing Sheriff's and Justices of the Peace etc. This should be the reason why they're the size they are. In your example it would seem to indicate that there was enough population in each county with a county seat and associated court house at that time.

    Of course this jurisdiction, our original Federal, is the one that was overlaid by district courts in the 1860s. Now we don't go do that business anymore.
     
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    I think it is directly population related. Who were the "original" landowners. In what I'm reading, the future state of Georgia was infested with Indian towns. They do not say villages. Could be semantics I guess, but may be there is something to it.
    • This Trustee Georgia, was a very interesting entity.
    • There was a buttload of land, yet without a certain permission, things were not allowed to happen.
      • To be able to deny stuff, there had to be means of control and enforcement.
        • Do we have any evidence of these?
    The Georgia colony was established in 1732-33. What happened next? By 1816 we had this. That's a span of about 84 years.
    • Isn't it bizarre that 324 years after Columbus (allegedly) discovered America we have maps looking like this?
    1816
    4534024.jpg

    Source
    And it looks that this is about when the "colonists" started to advance west. Just like I was saying, those little coincidenses.
    The barely established United States of America are in the middle of very little advertised Second War for Independence, yet there is time and resources to fight Indians?
    • I find this 1812 Independence War to be very suspicious. It's after this war of 1812 we really started moving west.


    Anyways, so it took them 84 years (1732-1816) to achieve the breakdown we can see on the map of 1816. And then, between 1816 and 1833, within 17 years we have this?

    1833
    ga_1833.jpg

    Source
     

    jd755

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    I don't know if this adds to this article or not but over here many things such as villages and breweries and mills are laid out on the average comfortable walking distance a horse can cover in a day. This is about fifteen mile as the crow flies.
    All of the counties that have ever existed on this island feature a 'county town' which was where all the functions deemed necessary by those who like to govern for the purposes of government were carried out and still are today.
    Does this tie in with some of the historic claims for the area in question?
     
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    You are on a pretty “not big” island, my friend.

    As far as this Georgian case goes, we need to figure out what we are seeing, establishment of settlements progressively growing into bigger towns, or occupation of the pre-existing infrastructure.

    So far, it sure does not look like any natural settlement progression to me.
     

    jd755

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    The process is more what I was referring to. Should what Scott said pan out then it isn't radically different to what went on here. It's not universal of course as in all villages and towns were 15 miles apart but the patterning is still there even with the bloated towns local naming nomenclature.

    Moving 'out from the coast' or 'out from the river system' has been a repeating pattern within quackademia so to me clearly it is bogus. Like all cons it makes sense at face value but on second glance it cracks apart and collapses in on itself to leave the void.
    Your maps make no sense at all from any perspective.
    If colonists were moving out from the sea side into land already occupied by other people who would presumably resent the intrusion and resist the expansion or possibly drive the invaders from the land back into the sea.
    If the land was devoid of other people then there could be a case for the movement of people inland from the sea being the driver but realistically as the area is big ( I have no clue really but defer completely to your knowledge of distances over there) then there is no need whatsoever to expand much beyond the sea side even if large numbers of new colonists were appearing or the original colonists were breeding like rabbits.
    If the land was being depopulated by something like a virulent disease or inter faction confrontations or even forcible removal of people by a third party for some reason they it would suggest that whatever infrastructure they had in place prior to their removal/disappearance would sit there 'for the taking' as it is called.
    I cannot discount a natural disaster of some description being the event that cleared the population but I have no idea what evidence there would be visible on the ground for such a thing.
    If the hinterland from the sea side were logged out to feed the sea side building infrastructure then the logging front could be the thing that moves inland ahead of colonisation but it seems doubtful it would move rapidly enough to cover so large an area.
    If the logging out destroyed the edge trees of whatever forest was there at the time then the rest of the forest would be rendered vulnerable to whatever direction the prevailing weather systems could throw at it. This would also create a cascade type effect of the hydrological cycle breaking down and the land would salt up along with the spring waters and that too could easily depopulate large areas at a time.
    However the colonists would suffer just as much and I cannot imagine colonists wanting to replant a forest when all they had to do was keep moving inland to get whatever they were consuming.

    I've looked again at those maps and they have a feel, nothing more, of real estate scams about them.

    That there were people living at a variety of densities in the lands of Georgia who didn't get there by sailing a ship across or rather around an ocean seems to me to be a racing certainty. Bill Mollison of permaculture 'fame' spent a lot of time in the Southern states and came to the conclusion time and again from his experience, his observation and fireside chats with the locals much of the living landscape was brought into being and maintained by the actions of both man enormous numbers of animals and man's encouraging of certain species of animals and plants and the holding back of others.
     
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    We have a very different interpretation of what we see jd. Colonization story lines like this one, will always be grounds for investigation in my book:
    • An Indian village had occupied the site, but Oglethorpe arranged for the Indians to move.
    • Today it’s the city of Savannah
    I’m in the process of writing an article on the ghost town of Ebenezer, that apparently served as the capital of Georgia. The story has Salzburger emigrants being promised 50 acres of Georgia land each. The story is shady, for we have varying numbers between 87 and 300 emigrants. But potentially, this is 15,000 acres for 300 individuals. And this is only one group of “settlers”. There were thousands of other people coming in.

    What could this say about the status of the land in Georgia? Was it unoccupied? But in this case, why did it take them so long to advance west?

    In case the land was occupied, how could they claim these “C.H.” denoted territories well in advance? But also, what took them over 50 years to start advancing.

    It all comes down to this:
    • How did they manage to gain a foothold in Savannah so easily?
    • Why would a whole indian “village” pack up and leave their ancestral grounds upon Oglethorpe’s request?
    • Did them Indians do it to make 114 initial Georgia colonists feel welcome, or what?
    • And why did Oglethorpe want this specific chunk of land in the yet uncolonized Georgia?
    To be honest, for myself, I opened a can of worms bigger than I can handle. I will try to do the best I can, but I know beforehand that this is the story I will sell short.
     

    jd755

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    I'm just pushing ideas out. To establish what went on I reckon that it is the patterns that will reveal all so too speak. Not the chronology as that is so messed up its unreal.
    When the 'evidence' for what happened comes from those who gain from the their telling of events such as Oglethorpe then I don't doubt its bullshit.

    I also doubt the claims of sailing across the Atlantic told about the 'early explorers' of the Americas. No sane individual would set of on a journey into the sea of unknown duration, of unknown distance with a fully stocked ship simply because it could not be known to be carrying enough fresh water to make the trip or even landfall.
    So unless the Europeans had maritime charts from someone else they had to have sailed around the coasts where they could at least keep in sight of land so as to maintain their water supply.
    Logistics allows for no other options. IF and it's a big if the early explorers and colonists went from Europe to America. From my perspective it makes much more sense for people to have crossed from the Russian side of the Bering Strait and descended down the east coast of the Americas in ships and on land or even for people to have come across from what we are told is Antarctica and up both coasts and lands of south and then north America.

    The only way they could have gained a foothold in Savannah was either the place was devoid of people for a fair way around or there were either people or their infrastructure or both there who made them welcome. Nothing else makes any sense.

    It is highly doubtful that anyone would voluntarily pack up and move out of their own accord just to accommodate offcomers such as Oglethorpe and his 114 colonists no matter where they are supposed to have come from.

    It is not beyond precedent to sell land that is not owned or under 'house rule' in a speculative fashion to make a fast buck. It is indeed a repeating pattern over time so may, I stress may, have been going on in the early 1800's if indeed that was the years in which this opening of Georgia took place.

    There is nothing in the official story that makes sense. A slight tangent but back in the day when I was an apprentice I used to work alongside a plumber called Oglethorpe. It's not a name one comes across very often.
     
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    To establish what went on I reckon that it is the patterns that will reveal all so too speak.
    100% my opinion, for by breaking a complex of events into individual isolated incidents, the PTB would only need 5-7 scenarios to further convolute our understanding. In the process, they camouflage the bigger picture, aka the pattern.
     
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  • jd755

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    With you old man, with you. The obfuscation is ongoing.

    I've just been scratching at this Oglethorpe character I use the word as that is what he seems to be a character. It led to a Charter of Incorporation which is the thing that is deemed to bring something into being that previously wasn't.
    the corporate charter, are a document or charter that establishes the existence of a corporation
    So basically its a piece of paper which men claim gives them rights over other men and any rights they may claim to have.
    The wiki link says this;
    The colony's corporate charter was granted to General James Oglethorpe on April 21, 1732, by George II, for whom the colony was named. The charter was finalized by the King's privy council on June 9, 1732
    That led to this page which is to my mind as clear a layer of obfuscation as one gets to see given it is nothing more than a copy of copy of an original!
    I recall on the forum you and I both doubt the existence of original documents as they are labelled as no-one it seems gets to hold one of them and there is no known way to date any document so produced. Despite that they have no difficulty in proclaiming any date they like for any document they like as you can see here.

    Screenshot_2021-01-31 Page 1.jpg

    Source
    The question for me is is the copying of copies all the justification they need to deem the existence of an 'original' or is it done to cast doubt on what could be a true document they cannot simply get rid of any other way?

    And the piece of paper named Corporate Charter did the Colony of Georgia as in the land as defined on the map exist as a Colony prior to the documents creation and does the paper simply bring into being the Corporation named Colony of Georgia which overlaid it in the same way the United States of America Corporation overlays America?
     
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    The entire enterprise was being run as a business venture, or so it seems to me. The fact that Oglethorpe needed a specific chunk of property can only mean that the location was not random. Reading texts of that era has limited usefulness, for the narrative was written in stride. The only way to spot useful facts is by comparing older versions of the narrative to the one we have today.

    Here is something else to look at. We know that the area was allegedly occupied by also allegedly primitive Creek aka Muscogee Indians. How primitive were they in reality, and what did they really look like? Either presented appearence brings up tons of questions. May be both are reflective of reality. May be only one is.
    There are so many weird things in this colonization of Georgia...
    • From my school education I know, that Indians did not look like black folks. And these depictions suggest that their society was anything but primitive.
     

    AnthroposRex

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    The process is more what I was referring to. Should what Scott said pan out then it isn't radically different to what went on here. It's not universal of course as in all villages and towns were 15 miles apart but the patterning is still there even with the bloated towns local naming nomenclature.

    Moving 'out from the coast' or 'out from the river system' has been a repeating pattern within quackademia so to me clearly it is bogus. Like all cons it makes sense at face value but on second glance it cracks apart and collapses in on itself to leave the void.
    Your maps make no sense at all from any perspective.
    If colonists were moving out from the sea side into land already occupied by other people who would presumably resent the intrusion and resist the expansion or possibly drive the invaders from the land back into the sea.
    If the land was devoid of other people then there could be a case for the movement of people inland from the sea being the driver but realistically as the area is big ( I have no clue really but defer completely to your knowledge of distances over there) then there is no need whatsoever to expand much beyond the sea side even if large numbers of new colonists were appearing or the original colonists were breeding like rabbits.
    If the land was being depopulated by something like a virulent disease or inter faction confrontations or even forcible removal of people by a third party for some reason they it would suggest that whatever infrastructure they had in place prior to their removal/disappearance would sit there 'for the taking' as it is called.
    I cannot discount a natural disaster of some description being the event that cleared the population but I have no idea what evidence there would be visible on the ground for such a thing.
    If the hinterland from the sea side were logged out to feed the sea side building infrastructure then the logging front could be the thing that moves inland ahead of colonisation but it seems doubtful it would move rapidly enough to cover so large an area.
    If the logging out destroyed the edge trees of whatever forest was there at the time then the rest of the forest would be rendered vulnerable to whatever direction the prevailing weather systems could throw at it. This would also create a cascade type effect of the hydrological cycle breaking down and the land would salt up along with the spring waters and that too could easily depopulate large areas at a time.
    However the colonists would suffer just as much and I cannot imagine colonists wanting to replant a forest when all they had to do was keep moving inland to get whatever they were consuming.

    I've looked again at those maps and they have a feel, nothing more, of real estate scams about them.

    That there were people living at a variety of densities in the lands of Georgia who didn't get there by sailing a ship across or rather around an ocean seems to me to be a racing certainty. Bill Mollison of permaculture 'fame' spent a lot of time in the Southern states and came to the conclusion time and again from his experience, his observation and fireside chats with the locals much of the living landscape was brought into being and maintained by the actions of both man enormous numbers of animals and man's encouraging of certain species of animals and plants and the holding back of others.
    Intuition points me more towards there being two distinct kingdoms here. After the New Madrid Earthquake the northern and coastal Vatican supported group attacked west, mopping up survivors.
     
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    Dang, how could I forget about this calamity, or whatever it really was.

    97F5E557-DE28-4937-AC94-0387AA15E674.jpeg
     

    jd755

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    Just how the hell did they record earthquake data in 1811 or whenever it whatever it was occurred?

    "Perceived shaking information from Otto W. NuttIi" frankly doesn't cut the mustard.
    The US geological survey wasn't created until 1879, apparently so question is whether there were two or more kingdoms or whatever duking it out who was able to record earthquake data in the war zone, and why?
    More holes in these historical mega events than in my colander.
     
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  • Aiahavezred

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    I find it odd. Settlers stagnate on the east coast. Fighting wars to claim all the kind they can. Never moving west. Then, BOOM, first recorded earthquake in Tennessee and they start moving westward. I know there us a fault line there that is fairly active even now; its just odd that it marked last that few battles in the east and a relatively slow period of warring.
     
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    Hmm... is Georgia really the only colony founded in the 18th century?


    I think I figured out why we have that saying about too many chiefs and not enough indians.
    creek_indians-1.jpg

    It's like if Creek aka Muscogee Indians did not really procreate for hundreds, and possibly thousands of years. Per the narrative...

    creek_indians-2.jpg

    It also appears that either the meaning of the word "town" has changed, or there is something in this story we do not fully understand.
    • A village is a small community in a rural area. A town is a populated area with fixed boundaries and a local government. A city is a large or important town.
    • A village is a small settlement usually found in a rural setting. It is generally larger than a "hamlet" but smaller than a "town".
    • Some geographers specifically define a village as having between 500 and 2,500 inhabitants.
    • The Industrial Revolution of the late 18th and early 19th centuries forever changed village life. The Industrial Revolution, defined as transition from animal-based labor to machines that manufacture goods, vastly increased productivity. As this happened, countless small villages grew into cities and towns.
     

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