Was previous Jerusalem located in England?

Wanted to post this prior to flying out to Florida. The other day I stumbled into two lines of 1661 text about the "old Jerusalem". I'm pretty sure you will be able to figure out what two lines I'm talking about once you get to them. Meanwhile, let's start with the Skull Hill:
  • Golgotha, (Aramaic: “Skull”) also called Calvary, (from Latin calva: “bald head,” or “skull”), skull-shaped hill in Jerusalem, the site of Jesus' crucifixion.
  • The hill of execution was outside the city walls of Jerusalem, apparently near a road and not far from the sepulchre where Jesus was buried.
  • Its traditional site, identified by Queen Mother Helena, mother of Constantine the Great, in 325 AD.
  • Calvary - Wikipedia
  • Golgotha
golgotha.jpg

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Below we have a map showing today's Jerusalem. The Golgotha Hill is indicated by a red marker.
  • You are welcome to zoom in. See if you can find a river or a body of water immediately next to the city of Jerusalem.
    • The Dead Sea is ~15 miles away
    • The Mediterranean Sea is ~ 30 miles away
jerusalem-map.jpg

Yet, some of the depictions of the Christ's crucifixion do not really look like the known Jerusalem area. Where do we have a similar size body of water in Jerusalem?

1430-1433
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1445-1467
Christ-on-the-cross-_Fra_Carnev.jpg

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1514-1516
832px-Albrecht_Altdorfer_-_Christus_am_Kreuz_mit_Maria_und_Johannes.jpg

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Then, we have this.
  • This province is called Tarshish, from which came the Three Wise Kings, and they came to Bethlehem in Judaea with their gifts and worshipped Jesus Christ, and they are entombed in the city of Cologne two days journey from Bruges.
  • Biblical Magi - Wikipedia
According to the Gospel of Matthew, our Magi found the divine child in Bethlehem by following the North Star across the desert.
  • Bethlehem is about 4 miles south of Jerusalem, and there are no bodies of water there either.
1488
Domenico_Ghirlandaio_-_Adoration_of_the_Magi.jpg

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c.1540
The_Arrival_in_Bethlehem.jpg

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And this here is "ancient" Jerusalem, as far as I understand.

1683
jerusalem2.jpg

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Below we have an early version of the PTB Chronology. It was published in London in 1661, or I66I, if you prefer.
1661
book-1.jpg

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The narrative has this "town of Elia" covered.
  • Aelia Capitolina was a Roman colony founded by Emperor Hadrian in Jerusalem, which had been almost totally razed after the siege of 70 AD, during his trip to Judah in 129/130 AD.
  • The foundation of Aelia Capitolina and the construction of a temple to Jupiter at the site of the former temple may have been one of the causes for the outbreak of the Bar Kokhba revolt in 132 AD.
  • Aelia Capitolina remained as the official name until Late Antiquity and the Aelia part of the name transliterated to "Iliyā" was also used by the Umayyad Caliphate.
There are minor discrepancies, but I'm not sure whether 129/130 AD in 2021 vs 135 in 1661 is enough to dent the narrative. At the same time, tiny inconsistencies like this can make a difference.
  • In Roman Judaea Hadrian visited Jerusalem, which was still in ruins after the First Roman–Jewish War of 66–73.
  • He may have planned to rebuild Jerusalem as a Roman colony with various honorific and fiscal privileges.
  • KD: These "may have's" sound somewhat suspicious.
So, how much difference can the above 5-6 year gap produce? Judge for yourself.
  • Inscriptions make it clear that in 133 Hadrian took to the field with his armies against the rebels.
  • He then returned to Rome, probably in that year and almost certainly - judging from inscriptions - via Illyricum (Balkan peninsula).
  • Hadrian spent the final years of his life at Rome.
  • In 134, he took an Imperial salutationfor the end of the Second Jewish War, which was not actually concluded until the following year.
KD: If inscriptions make it clear that Hadrian left the area in 133 AD, than who founded this "Aelia Capitolina" in 135 AD?

Jesus Christ
According to Mr. Fomenko, Jesus Christ was born in 1152 and died in 1185. That makes it the 12th century if we use our current time line. Personally, I do not know if Jesus Christ has ever existed as a living being.
  • Judging by the alleged purpose of his "second coming", we could have an "Oh Jesus" event hiding behind this name.
    • Do we really know how many times earthlings had a pleasure of Jesus visiting their habitat?
  • One way or the other, I'm probably a bit more radical as far as dating "Jesus" goes.
  • I know that certain things did not start until the 15th century.
  • Methinks, "Jesus" visited us (or them) a bit prior to 1400s (on the PTB provided time line).
Jerusalem(s)
We know that there was a city named Jerusalem in Africa. I am somewhat skeptical about this African Jerusalem. Here are my reasons to be skeptical.
  • Every single map (with Jerusalem on it) was produced after 1850.
  • This Orange River does not appear to be big enough.
    • It's still better than no body of water at all.
  • There is no Elia connection that I can see.
jerusalem_africa_1886.jpg

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African Jerusalem Maps:
Needless to say that we have no Jerusalem there any longer. This African Jerusalem was renamed a few times.

1854
1854-jer.jpg

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1893
jer-7.jpg

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Today's Vredebeergs (1 + 1) do not match geographically. Googling for Gaobis produced this:
  • Ramansdrift is an abandoned town on the banks of the Orange River.
  • The nearest towns are Vredendal (28.8 km), Gaobis (28.8 km), Silwerstroom (32.6 km), and Hakiesdoorn (48.3 km).
  • The first Boers set out north from what is now Little Namaqualand to found settlements such as Kakamas, Ramansdrift, Schuitdrift, and Sendelindgsdrift.
If anything, it does sound like Boers headed straight for Jerusalem. Who knows, may be it's a new Jerusalem (aka Temple) every time after we get visited by "Jesus".

Elia in England
elia-1.jpg

1674 Source

1851
elia-2.jpg

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The Isle of Ely is a historic region around the city of Ely in Cambridgeshire, England. This Ely is not even close to any body of water. At the same time, when we talk about England, there appears to be one interesting detail to consider.

ely-x.jpg


The unofficial anthem of England
The poem was supposedly inspired by the apocryphal story that a young Jesus, accompanied by Joseph of Arimathea, a tin merchant, travelled to what is now England and visited Glastonbury during his unknown years.


And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic mills?


Bring me my bow of burning gold:
Bring me my arrows of desire:
Bring me my spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire.

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.


Milton_preface.jpg

Source

So... who knows? Them water levels can do miracles. Of course, this part works for any Jerusalem location. At the same time, we do have maps showing the town of Elia aka Ely being close to some serious water.
  • The below 1541 map is posted to demonstrate that a good chunk of the island was under water at some point.
  • Can you find the city of London on the below 1541 map?
  • Please consider the name of the area where our town of Ely is located today: Isle of Ely.
1541
eng-1541.jpg

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1556
ely-72.jpg

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1575
ely-56.jpg

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KD: What do you think? Could it be that the real Jerusalem was not destroyed by the Romans, but rather became submerged due to a major flood? Genesis 8:3.
  • The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down.
Once the water receded, the old Jerusalem was renamed to Elia aka Ely... (speculating here)... a new Jerusalem location was picked and the next Temple (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc) was allowed to begin...
 

Right Arm

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Funny that this should feature here as it ties with a few other themes/memes.

That is the Bedfordshire countryside, the place of the Bedford levels experiment, the end of which is home to this.

52°21'19.37"N 0° 2'36.85"E

Way out of place here.

Screenshot 2021-03-30 at 22.01.02.jpg


_116565848_capture2.jpeg

I have always been suspicious of the Ely cathedral as one of it's employee's was one John Alcock (bishop) who is the alleged builder of the Jesus College, Cambridge.

Lots of weird stuff in the neighbouring Cambridgeshire, Trinity College comes to mind, as does the corpus christi which has this little gem,
One could say an apt description of the times in which we find ourselves.

The clock is entirely accurate only once every five minutes. The rest of the time, the pendulum may seem to catch or stop, and the lights may lag or, then, race to get ahead. According to Taylor, this erratic motion reflects life's "irregularity".

Conceived as a work of public art, the Chronophage reminds viewers in a dramatic way of the inevitable passing of time. Taylor deliberately designed it to be "terrifying": "Basically I view time as not on your side. He'll eat up every minute of your life, and as soon as one has gone he's salivating for the next." It has been described as "hypnotically beautiful and deeply disturbing"

Nothing solid to add just loads of curiosities!

Ely seems to have been not as flat as it is today!
 
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  • Banta

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    Oh the holy lands, how little we really have to go on. Fomenko thought a lot took place in Italy. I'm digging this England idea though ... immediately I thought of this rather obvious comparison:

    This is the most comprehensive and radical reassessment of Arthurian history ever undertaken. The conclusion is that the Classical Arthur did not exist. This is why there is no mention of King Arthur for nearly 600 years, until the early 12th century. It was only when Templar Crusaders returned to Normandy from Syria and Judaea, that the Arthurian genre was born.

    Why?

    Because in reality, King Arthur was the alter ego for the biblical King Jesus of Judaea. The Templar Crusaders had discovered a manuscript in Syria detailing the true monarchal and martial life of King Jesus and his family. But this revised history was decidedly heretical and positively dangerous. Being unable to record and preserve this history directly, the Norman Templars crafted an alternate pseudo-history about a 'British' monarch called King Arthur.
    I personally can't keep straight who should be mythological and who is supposed to be a real historical character. Jesus is like the ultimate inflection point, his historical veracity is mostly a matter of faith... But unlike almost all others, his existence/non-existence is open for debate. Given his alleged importance, that seems very odd to me.

    I do sometimes wonder if we are dealing with simply another "title" with the name Jesus Christ (because in one sense, we obviously are), so multiple locations/events could very well be in play here. Every country had a Jerusalem, maybe like every corner has a Starbucks.
     

    RobertSmith

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    Hello KD. Comyns Beaumont states in his book, The Great Deception, that Edinburgh was Jerusalem.
    Here is a printed map of that location from page 323 of his book. Comyns Beaumont The Great Deception comparing names under Jerusalem and Edinburgh.

    edinburgh6.jpg

    He has another book Britain The Key To World History : Comyns Beaumont - 300 pages.

    It took me eight month to read these books. I had to keep going back to re-read. Alot to 'digest' and compare to modern geography. I;m still going back at times to read, when something comes up concerning ancient tribes & cities. Like now, it had me going back to re-read certain parts.

    Quoting an excerpt from "The Great Deception" pages 300-314.
    In the Old Jerusalem, which ran from east to west, the two dominating physical features were the Mount of Olives in the east and the Hill (or Mount Zion), or David's City, in the west. The city was formerly fortified by three various walls and was protected also by lakes or swamps. The circumference of the outer walls,
    strengthened by 90 strong towers, embraced about four square miles. Similarly the dominating features of Old Edinburgh are Arthur's Seat in the east and the Castle towering in the west.

    The Hill of Zion - or David's City, or the Citadel, included the Royal Palace, and was strongly fortified. It was situated at the western extremity of a long hill or rise, which descended gradually to the east to the foot of the Mount of Olives in exactly the same way as the Castle today stands on a height which descends steadily to the base of Arthur's Seat.
    This long hill from the Citadel eastward was cut through or divided by a narrow ravine or valley named the Valley of the Cheesemongers or the Tyropoean Valley, which passed between that part of the upper city called Ophel and the continuation of the hill where stood immediately above it the Temple of Herod. Gradually descending, this hill passed through the residential and business centres generally, having many side streets of deep declivity on either side. (This description is duplicated precisely as from Edinburgh Castle, with the Esplanade and Castle Hill answering to Ophel, finally descending to the eastern termination of the Canongate. This continuous descent is also interrupted by a former ravine or valley known as George IV Bridge, a thoroughfare raised artificially in at least three periods. The hill's continuation crowned by St Giles Cathedral and the Law Courts.)

    12. The Mount of Olives, as we gather from the Scriptures, overlooked and dominated Jerusalem and was regarded as a sacred height. As its name portends, it was planted with olive groves and also had oaks and myrtle trees. On a flank of it lay the King's Gardens belonging to the former House of the Forest of Lebanon, built by Solomon, the later famous Garden of Gethsemane. King Arthur's Seat, 822 feet, dominates Edinburgh from the east as did the Mount of Olives. Its lower heights, ringed with former lynchets and terraces, yield evidence of the time when the olive and the vine could flourish here as in other parts of Britain. The olive was traditionally first cultivated by the Hyperboreans and taken by Hercules to Greece. Buried in the soil, bronze swords and celts have been found which indicate the great antiquity of this outstanding height. One Jewish coin was mentioned by Sir Daniel Wilson in his Prehistoric Annals of Scotland, bearing the effigy of a man in a turban and with the inscription in Hebrew “Solomon ben Isaac”. Near Salisbury Crags (550 feet above sea) is evidence of a past tremendous physical appulsion causing a deep fracture, with Samson's Ribs (suggestive of the god Hercules, the hero Samson, whose mission at the time of the Flood was to throw down huge rocks and stones from above at the behest of the gods), where the bare basaltic columns dip downward to the lower road. This remarkable so-called geological "fault" by the presence of basaltic columns must relate the event to that dramatic period of the Great Catastrophe as described by the prophet Zechariah, who was in Jerusalem at the time, and describes the miraculous escape the city had on that momentous occasion, when the Mount of Olives was thus afflicted, in these words: "Then shall the Lord go forth … and his feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof, toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." (Zechariah 14: 3-4)

    14. The Valley of Hinnom and Golgotha is another most important feature of Jerusalem to all Christians. The Valley of Hinnom, which led to the city of that name, passing by Golgotha, lay west of Jerusalem, and had a bad reputation for in the Valley stood a "high place”, a Hivite altar where Solomon had erected altars to the deities Astarte, Chemosh, and Milcom. (II Kings 23: 13) Josiah had thrown them down and defiled them. "And he defiled Tophet, which is in the Valley of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or daughter to pass through the fire unto Moloch." (II Kings 23: 10) Not very far distant were buried the corpses of the great army that was besieging Jerusalem at the moment when the Almighty destroyed 185,000 men of the Assyrian army, comprising those called Gog and Magog, by a mighty Blast, in a fraction of time, as described by Isaiah. The area was appropriately named the “Valley of Slaughter”. Jeremiah says: "The days come that this place shall no more be called Tophet, or the Valley of the sons of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter." (Jeremiah 19: 6)

    Ezekiel describes this shambles in some detail, of the stench occasioned by the rotting corpses, and states that anyone passing who saw a hand or foot protruding was to put up a mark so that the grave-diggers might inter it. He said they should call it “the valley of the multitude of Gog.” (Ezekiel 39: 11) This fits in completely with the Great Catastrophe whereby the territory in question obtained the name of
    Lanach. (Gael. “Lightning”), which name is still borne by the adjoining region of Lanark-shire, where coal is mined in quantities. In the past,
    this area was called Damnia, or “the Damned”.

    This Valley of Hinnom or Hamon-Gog, Valley of Slaughter, Valley of the Rephaim (Giants), became subsequently Golgotha, the place of Gothic skulls, the invaders being generalised as Goths in this age which buried their tens of thousands suddenly destroyed by the act of the “Almighty”, in the 14th year of Hezekiah, killed in a flash by awful lightnings in the area where the skulls and bones remained a grim memory of the dramatic past, a miracle by the direct intervention of Heaven which saved the city from collapsing into their hands. If ever there were a miracle such was this “celestial intervention” - as believed in subsequent ages. It was there, at Golgotha, "the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha; where they crucified him.” (John 19: 17-8)

    The Valley of Hinnom lies on the main road to Falkirk, and reaches Corstorphine Hill some two miles from the capital, now the middle of a golf course, where, there is little doubt, stood originally Tophet, “the High Place”, the place of sacrifice. Another three miles on, the road reaches Gogar, Gogar Mount, Gogar Village, Gogar Burn and other landmarks bearing the name Gogar: It retains the name Gog to this day. Gog himself was in Scripture the leader of the Goths in the reign of Hezekiah. The Romans called this area Gugernum, only a variation, and had a military station hereabouts. Here, in truth, is the place of ill memory, which later became Jerusalem's dungheap. It offers little to the eye but it is redolent with memories of an immortal event in the history of man.

    The original Hinnom itself requires mention. The valley of Hinnom leads, today as long ago, from Edinburgh to Stirling, and it passes by Falkirk. The Antonine Iter terms the fifth fort along the Antonine Wall from the east to the Clyde, as Hunnum, differing from Hinnom only in the vowel pronunciation. Ravennas calls it Onno. Gildas mentions it in connection with was also Camelon, the Camululodunum of the Romans. In other words it was Falkirk, a part of the territory of the Attacotti of Dumbarton, earlier, Athenians!
    Robert Smith.
     

    Aiahavezred

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    I find it odd that the city was rebuilt as Elia, but shortly after, it's still referred to as jerusalem.

    As for matching city names in other regions, we still do this today. It seems we are not terribly imaginative with place names.
     

    Parta

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    the neolithic landscape of England [conical hill in pond, great cursus, small cursus, henges etc] is surely a copy of paradise [eden,Zion/jerusalem] before it suffered its catastrophe and the neolithic brits had to migrate to Britain. so I would agree its the previous Jerusalem but not the original.

    peace.
     
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  • Otherlane

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    I'll never forget the creepy witchcraft ritual known as the 2012 Summer Olympics in London where they began the ceremony singing about Jerusalem built on satanic mills...what followed was just horrifying with child abductions and such...anyways, I also think Jerusalem might have been as commonplace of a name as Springfield (where of course The Simpsons live haha) so who really knows where the Biblical Jerusalem actually was...based on Mark Twain's 1800s description of Palestinian Jerusalem, it doesn't seem like much of anything holy had been going on there for many years except donkeys dusting the small town which actually saw Jews, Muslims and Christians living together peacefully, unlike the they've been fighting forever narrative expounded in the media and education institutions today
     

    jd755

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    the neolithic landscape of England [conical hill in pond, great cursus, small cursus, henges etc] is surely a copy of paradise [eden,Zion/jerusalem] before it suffered its catastrophe and the neolithic brits had to migrate to Britain
    Or it was a model for whoever invented the bible story or whoever came up with an illustrated bible story.
     

    Parta

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    Or it was a model for whoever invented the bible story or whoever came up with an illustrated bible story.
    when the romans invaded and conquered "paradise" they discovered the pen of Mithra [see it on Trajans column] and thus started roman Mithraism and ... the catholic church.
    the real pen of Mithra has a circular henge inside a small cursus. it was used to collect aurochs running from the flood.
    strangely the gospel of Thomas is from a Sinaia tablet.
     

    jd755

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    How did you arrive at the conclusion the Romans were on this island?
    Interested because its something I have been unable to do.
     

    Parta

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    when the romans conquered "paradise" [which had been a nesos {isthmus} before being flooded.. then unflooded again] more gold was deposited in the treasury in one lump sum that all the collective gold that had been deposited up till that time. they were very proud and made no secret of it.
    which island do you mean?
     
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  • Parta

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    The one with England on it!
    and you cannot find evidence of romans being there? when I was young I found a coin in our garden and some pottery. I think my mom still has it all. what was it I found?
     

    jd755

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    Been here over 60 years seen not one thing that is definitively Roman. Lots of things labelled Roman by academics, named as being of Roman origin by academics, structures, mosaics, roads all said to Roman by academics but nothing convincing. Roman is used as a 'cannot be denied' boundary in academia.
    I've been to Vindolanda and other parts of the so called Roman wall or Hadrian's wall such as Housesteads and there is nothing about the archaeology that is definitive proof of the Romans having anything to do with the thing.
    I found an Indian one anna coin in field as a child does that mean the Indians were here in Britain at some time in the past?
    I've also found Irish pennies, does that mean the Irish once roamed Britain?

    I find broken pottery all the time along the sea shore quite how anyone can attribute anything as to the origin of the pieces is beyond me but archaeology and history are two scientific 'branches' that need to attribute things to a timeline the proponents of both disciplines can agree on so that is precisely what they do which of course keeps the funding and grants flowing until retirement.
    Any archaeologist or historian who dares to break out of the narrative and state an alternative is ostracised and pushed out into the long grass as happened to Mick Aston of Time Team fame when on a live dig he dared to suggest that what had been uncovered was not Roman and was likely British.

    So your evidence for their being on the island of Britain is a coin and some broken pot you discovered in your youth?
     

    Parta

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    I have seen EVERY TIME TEAM episode. there has never been any suggestion the romans were not in Britain. as for Indian coins what was the date on your coin. there have been a few migrations from India to Britain. and they throw their coins away religiously.

    the new time team episodes will include roman ruins they say. will not be the same without mick.
     

    jd755

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    The word is LIVE. It wasn't pre-recorded it was broadcast as it was happening. But this conversation is getting away from the OP point its also getting into a my tadger is bigger than yours exchange so I bow to your position.
     
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    Sounds like certain things could come down to what those who we call Romans called themselves during a specific time frame.
     

    Parta

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    the romans assumed the role of the sons of Heracles and it was their fate to hunt down and kill the sons of Poseidon.
     

    Aiahavezred

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    Been here over 60 years seen not one thing that is definitively Roman. Lots of things labelled Roman by academics, named as being of Roman origin by academics, structures, mosaics, roads all said to Roman by academics but nothing convincing. Roman is used as a 'cannot be denied' boundary in academia.
    I've been to Vindolanda and other parts of the so called Roman wall or Hadrian's wall such as Housesteads and there is nothing about the archaeology that is definitive proof of the Romans having anything to do with the thing.
    I found an Indian one anna coin in field as a child does that mean the Indians were here in Britain at some time in the past?
    I've also found Irish pennies, does that mean the Irish once roamed Britain?

    I find broken pottery all the time along the sea shore quite how anyone can attribute anything as to the origin of the pieces is beyond me but archaeology and history are two scientific 'branches' that need to attribute things to a timeline the proponents of both disciplines can agree on so that is precisely what they do which of course keeps the funding and grants flowing until retirement.
    Any archaeologist or historian who dares to break out of the narrative and state an alternative is ostracised and pushed out into the long grass as happened to Mick Aston of Time Team fame when on a live dig he dared to suggest that what had been uncovered was not Roman and was likely British.

    So your evidence for their being on the island of Britain is a coin and some broken pot you discovered in your youth?
    I found this Hello From Londinium: Oldest Handwritten Documents In British History Discovered
     

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