Welcome to the Machine - Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here

trismegistus

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#1
Honestly, its really difficult to just pick one Pink Floyd song to discuss here, as there is so much to this band when it comes to their lyrics, their connections, MKultra, LSD, you name it. I plan on expanding this post later when I'm not at work, because I have a book written by someone who was running with the same crowd as early stages Pink Floyd.

For now, I will focus on the first song that got me obsessed with the band. Musically, there is nothing super impressive with it in the sense that there aren't any classic Gilmour solos or epic prog breakdowns (that is saved for Shine on you Crazy Diamond on this record). Assuming that their lyrics weren't manufactured whole-cloth by three letter agencies (some make convincing arguments that most music from back then was), their lyrics are still some of the most subversive in pop-culture.

One of the things that fascinate me the most is that over the course of his career, as Pink Floyd went from playing underground art shows to selling out stadiums worldwide, Roger Waters was not afraid to criticize the very nature of their popularity. Wish You Were Here, the song and album, was explicitly written as a reflection on the band without Syd Barrett (who at that point had receded into obscurity/insanity), but there's more to it than that. Welcome To The Machine is not only a critique of the NWO and TBTP, but is also a critique of their own popularity.
Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
What did you dream? It's alright we told you what to dream.
You dreamed of a big star, he played a mean guitar,
He always ate in the Steak Bar. He loved to drive in his Jaguar.
So welcome to the machine
My loose translation of this:
Hey kid, I see you are very heavily influenced by my music. As a matter of fact, I bet you even dream of becoming a rockstar.
What if I told you that the CIA created our image to control you?
You see David Gilmour, he's onstage ripping solos left and right and he's got all the money and women he could want.
They've got you right where they want you

I think there is a whole wealth of information about 60s and 70s bands that has yet to be discussed. There is definitely a "hidden history" behind the rise of bands like this - - although I will make the argument that Pink Floyd was unique in the sense that Roger Waters was cheeky enough to let the truth come out in his lyrics.

 

milhaus

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#3
I would imagine being in the delivery room if I had a wife and she was having my child and as he was being delivered I would slip and say "Welcome my Son. Welcome to the machine". Yeah, okay weird imagination...

So I always took this song as a Father talking to his Son and just being brutally honest about this place and how no matter what the Son grows up thinking, he will still be a cog in the wheel and given dreams by his parents and society to chase after material possessions and wealth. But even if he thinks he knows better than to believe their lies he will still be playing a part tuned to his thinking and serving a vital function of the machine.

Where have you been?
It's alright we know where you've been
You've been in the pipeline


This society just views new souls as being in the pipeline to keep this machine going and so questions like that ultimately do not matter because all people care about is keeping the machine going even if most people aren't even aware of that.
 
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trismegistus

trismegistus

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#4
I'm just wondering who indoctrinates our performing individuals...
Managers, record labels, CIA, the list goes on. I haven't had a chance to crack open that book I mentioned previously, but in a nutshell the claim is that the producers and distributors of LSD were the primary drivers behind the rise of Pink Floyd. If the young, mobilized, passionate youth of the early 60s spend all of their time tripping on government sanctioned psychedelics then that is less time spent involved in activism, voting, or paying attention to the political atmosphere at the time. There are arguments on both sides as to whether this tactic was successful. Would Vietnam have lasted as long as it did if the youth was sober and clear-headed? Fast forward to 2018 and you see a majority of the "summer of love" generation buying what the telescreen is selling, most are hopelessly lost in the material realm deciding which Mercedes to lease next to take to their summer homes.

The pitch for LSD is that it is going to expand your mind and let you in on the secrets of the universe. If that were true, why did it seem to barely move the needle in that direction at all for the boomer generation (I digresss I am painting with a broad brush - - not all boomers were into this lifestyle)? Perhaps the design for LSD all along was to create a subservient materialist middle class...or at the very least a disaffected homeless population.
 

Onijunbei

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#5
"Weird Scenes Inside Laurel Canyon" by Dave McGowan is the book for you. In this book he brings out research describing most of the great rock stars of the 60's being the sons and daughters of intelligence agents and high ranking military personnel. The CIA has admitted to creating LSD. Other researchers have explained how the CIA and connected organizations planned and implemented both sides of culture. They not only created the wars but created the antiwar movements as well. And as far as Welcome to the Machine goes.. By his own account.. It is a reflection on the music industry, specifically how much control they have over the artists and the music. They suck talent in by showing them the riches and excesses of life... But they never show what the artists have to go through to obtain those riches.
 
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trismegistus

trismegistus

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#6
"Weird Scenes Inside Laurel Canyon" by Dave McGowan is the book for you. In this book he brings out research describing most of the great rock stars of the 60's being the sons and daughters of intelligence agents and high ranking military personnel.
Yes, I've read it. It is one of my favorites I've gone through in the last five years or so. As I mentioned in my OP, I think the hidden history of the music scene/counter culture/intelligence connections of the 60s deserves attention on this forum. It's not exactly as juicy as some of the bigger topics on here about ancient history, but it is recent enough to where some people on SH are old enough to have been around for some of this (I am but a humble, curious millennial with a penchant for 60s psych and 70s prog), and the lessons learned about media manipulation can be powerful. These bands helped shape who I was as a person when I was a young, hormonal teen. Reading McGowan's book hit me like a truck, as all my preconceived notions of what their music stood for was turned on its head. I lost my taste for some of my favorite bands (Jim Morrison's history is supremely creepy), but I gained newfound respect for others. For example, here's one of my favorite lines from Neil Young's music:

I got the revolution blues,
I see bloody fountains,
And ten million dune buggies
comin' down the mountains.
Well, I hear that Laurel Canyon
is full of famous stars,
But I hate them worse than lepers
and I'll kill them
in their cars.
 

milhaus

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#7
Yes, I've read it. It is one of my favorites I've gone through in the last five years or so. As I mentioned in my OP, I think the hidden history of the music scene/counter culture/intelligence connections of the 60s deserves attention on this forum. It's not exactly as juicy as some of the bigger topics on here about ancient history, but it is recent enough to where some people on SH are old enough to have been around for some of this (I am but a humble, curious millennial with a penchant for 60s psych and 70s prog), and the lessons learned about media manipulation can be powerful. These bands helped shape who I was as a person when I was a young, hormonal teen. Reading McGowan's book hit me like a truck, as all my preconceived notions of what their music stood for was turned on its head. I lost my taste for some of my favorite bands (Jim Morrison's history is supremely creepy), but I gained newfound respect for others. For example, here's one of my favorite lines from Neil Young's music:
Isn't that line from Charles Manson's point of view, though? He's no different than the rest. There is a character for any personality type to latch onto. I think it is more important to create things/art yourself than to listen to any of them.
 

Casimir

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#8
@Onijunbei This is exactly where my mind went as well. I already shilled for DM on a moon landing thread here, felt self conscious pointing him out again ha. I've only read the long ass blog saga of his about Laurel Canyon. I'm sure I'll check out the book down the road.

There's no way the movement co-opt'd / created by the govt in the 60s and 70s ever stopped, they only got better at what they do. One of my friends better connected in the EDM scene said most of the biggest artists today are also complicit in trafficking the drugs that go hand-in hand with music festivals and EDM in general- molly, LSD, etc. Its a funny synchronicity that I heard this around the same time I was looking into all the Laurel Canyon stuff by DM. It just makes sense.

Bc its made electronically, I think the field of dubstep/EDM/electronica in general is completely diluted with at-home artists making these generic beats. The funny part is, to me, there's largely not much of a difference between big dubstep star A and larry the youtube artist B's productions. Sure, there's some gems out there and a little nuance involved but largely, its all the same. I'm sure the same can be said about pop music (and what pop music was back in the 60's and 70's as well). How do the stars rise to the top? Be complicit in the extracurriculars.

Sell out an amphitheater of 2000 seats lets say, 20 bucks a pop. That's already 40k. What if 1000 people in the audience show up and buy the molly you've trafficked in through your dealers placed throughout the venue? ~10 bucks for a hit of molly, lets be conservative and say 1000 buy around 2 hits. That's 50% of what everyone's made just to show up- then remember there's no % to the venue (unless venues are complicit as well, wouldn't be surprised) and all that drug money is non taxable. Relative to personal experience, I'd say these numbers are EXTREMELY conservative as well.

Don't even get me started on the flashing lights / lasers and trippy videos that accompany the music and the symbolism within...

It hurts because a lot of music that we enjoy may be polluted by a subtle agenda, so many enlightened/woke/whatever they call it nowadays people identify with the very music proven to have been co-opted by TPB. Technology is allowed the masses to open up their free time, free time ideal for brainwashing and propaganda.
 
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trismegistus

trismegistus

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#9
Isn't that line from Charles Manson's point of view, though? He's no different than the rest. There is a character for any personality type to latch onto. I think it is more important to create things/art yourself than to listen to any of them.
I see what you are saying there, as the rest of the song taken as a whole is from a Manson POV. That being said, Neil Young was generally on the outside looking in on these musicians. Compared to Manson, Crosby, Stills, Zappa, etc Young was squeaky clean (no military upbringing). His dislike of CSN was pretty well known at the time, and while he held a certain amount of respect for Manson's musical abilities it seems like he was generally creeped out by him. All I'm saying is I think there may be a double meaning to that line, that cuts a little deeper upon a more in-depth understanding of his relationship with the scene.
 

milhaus

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#10
@Onijunbei It hurts because a lot of music that we enjoy may be polluted by a subtle agenda, so many enlightened/woke/whatever they call it nowadays people identify with the very music proven to have been co-opted by TPB. Technology is allowed the masses to open up their free time, free time ideal for brainwashing and propaganda.
Don't ever feel self conscious for pointing people towards information.

We do have a lot more free time and I really believe that time should be spent creating music, film, literature, etc. People could be making projects with their friends and family and then having viewing or listening parties to see the end result. It is a lot more fulfilling to create art instead of just consuming whatever "they" give us and there are much more layers when it is something personal.
I see what you are saying there, as the rest of the song taken as a whole is from a Manson POV. That being said, Neil Young was generally on the outside looking in on these musicians. Compared to Manson, Crosby, Stills, Zappa, etc Young was squeaky clean (no military upbringing). His dislike of CSN was pretty well known at the time, and while he held a certain amount of respect for Manson's musical abilities it seems like he was generally creeped out by him. All I'm saying is I think there may be a double meaning to that line, that cuts a little deeper upon a more in-depth understanding of his relationship with the scene.
Right, but he is essentially part of the whole Manson project.
 
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trismegistus

trismegistus

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#11
@Onijunbei
There's no way the movement co-opt'd / created by the govt in the 60s and 70s ever stopped, they only got better at what they do. One of my friends better connected in the EDM scene said most of the biggest artists today are also complicit in trafficking the drugs that go hand-in hand with music festivals and EDM in general- molly, LSD, etc. Its a funny synchronicity that I heard this around the same time I was looking into all the Laurel Canyon stuff by DM. It just makes sense.
Can confirm, I knew someone that worked X in the clubs back in the 90s in Amsterdam when the House scene was huge. Not only that, you also have gangster rap/crack cocaine, grunge/heroin, and nowadays you have mumble rap (trap? emo rap? Its too far out of my realm to properly label)/prescription pills.

There is a definite vibe in the music industry of "Get on Board with What We Tell You Or Else" in order to make it big. Whether its drugs, sexual favors, occult rituals, mind control or propaganda you can bet there's always a catch to a certain level of fame and success.

Right, but he is essentially part of the whole Manson project.
True. The mere fact that we are discussing this 50 years later shows not only how influential these musicians were on our society, but shines a light on just how little people actually know about these people.
 
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#12
@Onijunbei This is exactly where my mind went as well. I already shilled for DM on a moon landing thread here, felt self conscious pointing him out again ha. I've only read the long ass blog saga of his about Laurel Canyon. I'm sure I'll check out the book down the road.

There's no way the movement co-opt'd / created by the govt in the 60s and 70s ever stopped, they only got better at what they do. One of my friends better connected in the EDM scene said most of the biggest artists today are also complicit in trafficking the drugs that go hand-in hand with music festivals and EDM in general- molly, LSD, etc. Its a funny synchronicity that I heard this around the same time I was looking into all the Laurel Canyon stuff by DM. It just makes sense.

Bc its made electronically, I think the field of dubstep/EDM/electronica in general is completely diluted with at-home artists making these generic beats. The funny part is, to me, there's largely not much of a difference between big dubstep star A and larry the youtube artist B's productions. Sure, there's some gems out there and a little nuance involved but largely, its all the same. I'm sure the same can be said about pop music (and what pop music was back in the 60's and 70's as well). How do the stars rise to the top? Be complicit in the extracurriculars.

Sell out an amphitheater of 2000 seats lets say, 20 bucks a pop. That's already 40k. What if 1000 people in the audience show up and buy the molly you've trafficked in through your dealers placed throughout the venue? ~10 bucks for a hit of molly, lets be conservative and say 1000 buy around 2 hits. That's 50% of what everyone's made just to show up- then remember there's no % to the venue (unless venues are complicit as well, wouldn't be surprised) and all that drug money is non taxable. Relative to personal experience, I'd say these numbers are EXTREMELY conservative as well.

Don't even get me started on the flashing lights / lasers and trippy videos that accompany the music and the symbolism within...

It hurts because a lot of music that we enjoy may be polluted by a subtle agenda, so many enlightened/woke/whatever they call it nowadays people identify with the very music proven to have been co-opted by TPB. Technology is allowed the masses to open up their free time, free time ideal for brainwashing and propaganda.
The Tragic Decline of Music Literacy (and Quality)

The article above sums it up. My conclusion is that music is used as a weapon to dumb us down further.
 

milhaus

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#13
The Tragic Decline of Music Literacy (and Quality)

The article above sums it up. My conclusion is that music is used as a weapon to dumb us down further.
Definitely. But not just music; television and movies as well. It took me a long time to understand why people are so content with the trash that is put out now. I know I'm not any more intelligent than most people, But I realized that most people simply don't use their own imagination or exercise their own creativity and simply rely on tptb to entertain them or tell them what to think or "dream". Ultimately making us as a society even easier to control. Which brings us back to the topic of this song:

Welcome to the machine
What did you dream?
It's alright we told you what to dream
 
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#14
Definitely. But not just music; television and movies as well. It took me a long time to understand why people are so content with the trash that is put out now. I know I'm not any more intelligent than most people, But I realized that most people simply don't use their own imagination or exercise their own creativity and simply rely on tptb to entertain them or tell them what to think or "dream". Ultimately making us as a society even easier to control. Which brings us back to the topic of this song:

Welcome to the machine
What did you dream?
It's alright we told you what to dream
I completely agree with you. I don't even know how to compose music. I still don't know how to build a medieval castle like our ancestors did. All I have is a critical mind and kids worldwide are taught we have it better than our grandgrandgrandparents. Looking forward to KB:s theory on toilets. :D
 
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trismegistus

trismegistus

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#15
The Tragic Decline of Music Literacy (and Quality)

The article above sums it up. My conclusion is that music is used as a weapon to dumb us down further.
I think my conclusion would be that popular chart topping music is meant to dumb us down further. There is still a lot of great music being produced, and its easy to find if you know where to look. Progressive rock (classic and modern) is chock full of Berklee graduates throwing their music theory around like nobody's business. Math-rock takes a lot of what I like about jazz and progressive rock and manages to fuse it into something complex and enjoyable (though I understand its not everyone's cup of tea). Shoegaze, starting in the early 80s and still growing strong, is a unique genre that evokes a lot of emotion through soundscapes that you won't find on billboard hits. There is also a lot of metal that is technically refined, has deep messaging, and exotic use of scales.

I also totally understand that people who like listening to classical or jazz may not dig any of the aforementioned genres, but I say this to make the greater point that music isn't a totally lost cause. One of the benefits of life with the internet is that music that previously stayed in local areas can now spread anywhere on the planet with the right distribution model. Genres that used to develop in a local scene now spread non-locally, and influence is spread to areas one would never think. I personally think that this is one of the greatest times in history when it comes to the sheer amount of music that is accessible based off niche tastes. But it is also one of the worst times in history for "popular" music, as I completely agree that it pales in comparison to the pop music on the charts 40-50 years ago.
 
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#16
I think my conclusion would be that popular chart topping music is meant to dumb us down further. There is still a lot of great music being produced, and its easy to find if you know where to look. Progressive rock (classic and modern) is chock full of Berklee graduates throwing their music theory around like nobody's business. Math-rock takes a lot of what I like about jazz and progressive rock and manages to fuse it into something complex and enjoyable (though I understand its not everyone's cup of tea). Shoegaze, starting in the early 80s and still growing strong, is a unique genre that evokes a lot of emotion through soundscapes that you won't find on billboard hits. There is also a lot of metal that is technically refined, has deep messaging, and exotic use of scales.

I also totally understand that people who like listening to classical or jazz may not dig any of the aforementioned genres, but I say this to make the greater point that music isn't a totally lost cause. One of the benefits of life with the internet is that music that previously stayed in local areas can now spread anywhere on the planet with the right distribution model. Genres that used to develop in a local scene now spread non-locally, and influence is spread to areas one would never think. I personally think that this is one of the greatest times in history when it comes to the sheer amount of music that is accessible based off niche tastes. But it is also one of the worst times in history for "popular" music, as I completely agree that it pales in comparison to the pop music on the charts 40-50 years ago.
I completely agree with you! Should've had been more specific. I wouldn't be listening to shoegaze if it wasn't for the internet. Thanks for mentioning it!
 
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#17
What is the difference between all "modern" music produced since shortly after the second world war (1950s onwards) and music previous to that time?

The answer is BEATS. All modern music has a drum beat. The only music to have a drum beat prior to this time that I can think of off the top of my head was African tribal music.

I bet you 100 to 1 that one of the agencies involved in social engineering (which you have to admit is super heavy in today's world) discovered that African tibes could put their own tribal members in a trance with drums. This in turn opened up the subconscious very easily to hypnosis and suggestion. A social engineers wet dream to be sure.

Then then went immediately about introducing drum beats (trance inducing) into popular music with their suggestive (emotive) music to put you in the correct trance and emotional state. All that's needed now is the programming or hypnotiser's commands in the form of the subversive lyrics, and we are done.

It doesn't matter if you pay attention or not. The music and lyrics are programming your subconsious mind so you act and make decisions which you wouldn't normally do without them. I know the simple power of the subconscious which is amazing.

Here is an exercise you can do: Repeat 50 times a positive action once a day. (No negatives like "not" and "don't" as the subconscious doesnt recognise them apparantly). In about three days your actions will change. After several days you will be acting on your statement with gusto.

Stop repeating and after a couple of days it will wear off and you will revert back to the norm.
 

milhaus

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#18
What is the difference between all "modern" music produced since shortly after the second world war (1950s onwards) and music previous to that time?

The answer is BEATS. All modern music has a drum beat. The only music to have a drum beat prior to this time that I can think of off the top of my head was African tribal music.

I bet you 100 to 1 that one of the agencies involved in social engineering (which you have to admit is super heavy in today's world) discovered that African tibes could put their own tribal members in a trance with drums. This in turn opened up the subconscious very easily to hypnosis and suggestion. A social engineers wet dream to be sure.

Then then went immediately about introducing drum beats (trance inducing) into popular music with their suggestive (emotive) music to put you in the correct trance and emotional state. All that's needed now is the programming or hypnotiser's commands in the form of the subversive lyrics, and we are done.

It doesn't matter if you pay attention or not. The music and lyrics are programming your subconsious mind so you act and make decisions which you wouldn't normally do without them. I know the simple power of the subconscious which is amazing.

Here is an exercise you can do: Repeat 50 times a positive action once a day. (No negatives like "not" and "don't" as the subconscious doesnt recognise them apparantly). In about three days your actions will change. After several days you will be acting on your statement with gusto.

Stop repeating and after a couple of days it will wear off and you will revert back to the norm.
Funny you mention that because just the other day I had a realization that our society is programmed by the Amen Break

 

Ice Nine

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#19
Talking about drum beats made me think of In a Gadda Da Vida and that interminable drum solo. It's enough to make me feel like my head is going to explode, it always irritates the hell out of me and I have to change the station. It actually makes me feel uncomfortable. And I'm a dyed in the wool rock and roll afficenado. so that's not the problem.

 
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